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Dgiz
07-13-2004, 01:00 PM
Hi all,
I am gathering information on the French pre war and German occupation Unique pistols. This information will be added to a master list being established by French pistol collectors and available to collectors. It is their goal to establish a time frame and serial number range (or ranges) for the pistols produced by Manufacture d'Armes des Pyrennees Francaises (MAPF). This list will include information regarding Model types, variations and serial numbers. Only we, as collectors, can repair the damage done by passing time and lost records.
Here is what is needed.
1-MODEL such as Unique 10,16,18,17 (any and all models). The German occupation ones, and Kriegsmodelle.
2-The complete SERIAL NUMBER.
3-For Unique 17s, the type of SLIDE LEGEND(see example below),

Examples of slide legends on Unique 17s:
Variation one, Three line legend Pre war:

"MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE
LE VERITABLE PISTOLET FRANCAIES 'UNIQUE'
MARQUE DEPOSEE CAL. 7.65MM S.F.M"

Second variation, one line legend (French military contract):

"7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"

And the third type (German occupation):

"7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"
MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE"

4-The type of GRIPS on the pistol.

5-NOTES: to include markings such as Waffenamts (WaA251 or WaA20), Police units, GECO, additional numbers, Property marks, lanyard rings, safety stud added (17s) etc"

This is the only way we can put together the puzzle of pistol production and procurement. Maybe we can answer some long asked questions such as "Was there a new serial number range for German weapons?", "Did the German Unique 16s have their own serial number range?", "How many M17s did France recieve before the invasion?". Similar information is also being collected in France. No personel information is released without owners permission. Please post your information on this forum or you can email me at [email protected] Your pistol could be the missing piece!

Pre war Unique 17 and German Unique 16


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Three line legend on early Unique 17s and German Unique 16s.


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Lion grips on early 17.


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sauer
07-13-2004, 03:41 PM
Have in my collection Unique Model 17, Second Variation slide legend (7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"), Sn. 24733, WaA251, grips are black plastic (7.65m/m 9 SCHUSS). The gun is in very good condition, but the metal finish is very rough, showing many milling marks that were never polished out before bluing ( the WaA is stamped over milling marks). The barrel is numbered 153, and has the German military proof. There is a lanyard loop on the lower left side of the frame. Pins all too long or too short. Hope this information is helpful. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions. The gun was a vet bring back, but I have no information on when or where it was acquired.

Ron Smith
07-13-2004, 05:00 PM
I have Kreigsmodell ser# 69204, German Legend , black ribbed "7,65mm 9 SCHUSS" grips. Barrel # 267, slide and frame #259.WaAD20 on right rear frame.Eagle proof on rear edge left barrel flat.Holes drilled for lanyard loop. No loop. Metal is smooth, no mill marks. Appears bead blasted with a thin brassy toned finish.

Ron

Dgiz
07-13-2004, 05:00 PM
Thanks Sauer! Yours is very close to the Unique 16 range and narrows that gap! We will see if they overlap showing two seperate ranges! Your slide apears to be from the left over French stock. It shows up AFTER a German two line legend. May show that German slides were in production as the French ones were being used up. Interesting.
Thanks for sharing. Dean

Dgiz
07-19-2004, 03:35 PM
Thanks Ron.
Come on guys...I know that there are more French Uniques(any model), German occupation Unique 16 and 17s and Kriegsmodelles out there! There is still plenty of room on the list. Its about time you dug that pistol out of the safe and cleaned it anyway!
Dean

Ron Smith
07-19-2004, 06:13 PM
Dean, You may already have this. It's posted on an on line dealer.
Mod. 17, Ser# 31061, WaA 231, 7,65 9 SCHUSS black ribbed grips. 2nd German Legend. Dull blue 85%? cond.

Ron

jacobtowne
07-22-2004, 04:40 PM
What does the S.F.M. stand for in the slide legend?
JT

Dgiz
07-23-2004, 10:24 AM
According to Gene Medlin's "Military Handguns of France", it means French Munitions Society...Probably in the correct order of S.F.M. when written in French.
Dean

Joop van de Kant
07-23-2004, 11:08 AM
"Société Française de Munitions"...

english
08-04-2004, 10:26 PM
Dean, 7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE" s.n.32900 WAa251 ribbed grips 85% 90% finish Hope this helps? I also have a French 1935A and a Mab D.; both are German marked. Are you collecting information on those too? Joe

Dgiz
08-06-2004, 07:08 PM
Thanks Joe, I will add the number to the list. We are not really gathering those other pistols yet, but who knows what the future holds! I am interested if your MAD D is in the 47,000 range?
Dean

DocLes
08-10-2004, 10:21 PM
Say,are you collecting # on 1935A pre occupation? I have Cap B cursive 680A S.A.C.M.
With reguards, Les

crankshaft
09-03-2004, 05:12 PM
Dgiz, Here is another.

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crankshaft
09-04-2004, 04:16 PM
Dgiz.42151 WaA 251.hope ths helps.

Dgiz
09-04-2004, 05:09 PM
Crank,
Got it thanks! I will add it to the list.
More, more, we need more!
Dean

crankshaft
09-05-2004, 09:11 AM
Dgiz, also have holster for it. Crank

Dgiz
09-06-2004, 01:30 PM
Hey Crank, just for laughs, what is the assembly number? Is it the last three of the serial or different? I have seen both.
Dean

crankshaft
09-06-2004, 10:40 PM
Dgiz, Im not sure what you mean,you mean on the frame? or barrel? Crank

Dgiz
09-07-2004, 07:50 PM
Crank,
There should be an assembly number or partial serial number located on the inside of the slide at the rear, on the frame, barrel and on the safety lever.
Dean

crankshaft
09-08-2004, 11:36 AM
Dgiz,Both frame and barrel match.(314)the german ser#42151 and WaA251.do not find one on safty.Where would the # be on the safty lever?I did not pull it out, not sure how to.is it hidden? Crank

Dgiz
09-11-2004, 11:59 AM
Crank,
If you take your pistol apart and turn the safety lever, it will have a notch to come out. The serial number is on the post. Not sure how often the Germans marked these...the French did. Most people don't take their pistols apart far enough to give us this info. It is easy to do.
Dean

Dgiz
09-11-2004, 11:59 AM
Crank,
If you take your pistol apart and turn the safety lever, it will have a notch to come out. The serial number is on the post. Not sure how often the Germans marked these...the French did. Most people don't take their pistols apart far enough to give us this info. It is easy to do.
Dean

crankshaft
09-11-2004, 12:39 PM
Dgiz,Had to take the grips off to take the safty lever out, yes ,on the flat of the lever is the #314. also on the back of the grips are (right)grip what looks like the#4,and on the (left)grip it looks like a C with a tail on the bottom of the C, kinda looks like a micrometer. Crank

crankshaft
09-11-2004, 12:39 PM
Dgiz,Had to take the grips off to take the safty lever out, yes ,on the flat of the lever is the #314. also on the back of the grips are (right)grip what looks like the#4,and on the (left)grip it looks like a C with a tail on the bottom of the C, kinda looks like a micrometer. Crank

Guns-A-Blazin
09-20-2004, 12:34 AM
Hey Dgiz, My Unique 17 pistol has the vertical ribbed grips with “7.65M/M 9 SCHUSS” imprinted on it.

The frame, the safety lever, the slide, and the barrel all have the number “307” on them, they all match.

The slide legend has the two-line imprint on it
7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"
MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE

The serial number is 72982, on the right side of the frame. The right rear of the frame has the WaAD20 with the German eagle military proof symbol above it.
The barrel has the German eagle military proof symbol on it.
On the bottom left, below the grips and close to the magazine slot, is a lanyard ring.

The gun was given to me by my great-aunt, who had it after my great-uncle died. He brought it back from France when he came back from WWII.

Any more info you can come up with about it? Seems as if it was made during the German occupation based on the serial number and what I've read so far. Concur?

I got it broken down to clean, now I'm having a heck of a time getting the barrel back in place and the trigger to work. I think I'll have to take it to a gunsmith to get it back together. I want to have it checked out before I shoot it anyway. Any ideas, anyone? Reply here or to [email protected] Thanks!

Lloyd in Vegas
09-20-2004, 02:52 AM
Keith,

Welcome to the best collectible pistol forum on the internet. Acutally, your pistol is the next model or German refined Unique pistol called the Unique Kriegsmodell. It is easliy distinguished from the Unique Model 16 and Unique Model 17 by the external hammer. This external hammer was a refinement the Germans incorporated into the Unique pistol design resulting in the Kriegsmodell like you have. The Kriegsmodell was in the serial number range 58,000 to around 76,000. Anyway, I am sure Dgiz will welcome your serial number on your Unique Kriegsmodell for his data base. Here is a web site instruction guide that may help you with the reassembly of your pistol http://www.marstar.ca/AssemblyMilitaryPP.htm

Anyway welcome aboard and thanks for sharing the information on your Unique Kriegsmodell pistol.

Pancho
09-20-2004, 10:49 AM
Guns-A-Blazin
If it would help you get your piece back together,
I can take some photos of the clock works on my Kriegsmodel
and post the photos.
Let me know.
Pancho
[email protected]

Dgiz
09-20-2004, 10:52 AM
Keith,
Thank you for the serial number, I will add it to the master list. Lloyd has pretty much filled you in on the pistol. There is some discussion that the so called Kriegsmodell design was already in the works before the German occupation. It would have been a lot of work to tool up for that mid war. Some interesting stuff has come up from the serial numbers. The break between the Unique M17 and Krieg may not have taken place where originally thought. We need all the serial numbers we can locate!
Tell your friends!
Dean

Guns-A-Blazin
09-23-2004, 10:15 PM
To Pancho, Dgiz, and Lloyd, I appreciate all the info. This forum has been great! You guys are a lot of help. It's like having expert friends to call, and again, I sure appreciate it. Pancho, I may be in touch.

Keith

lisik
11-15-2004, 02:43 PM
Here is a picture of mine Unique ser. number 381xx, assembly number 407 on all parts. I am not sure if the grips are correct for this pistol, but that's the way I got it. WaA251.

Download Attachment: images/icon_paperclip.gif Unique Right.jpg (http://www.gunboards.com/luger/uploaded/lisik/20041115134049_Unique Right.jpg)
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Dgiz
11-15-2004, 09:36 PM
Lisik,
Thanks for the info..the grips look different from most I have seen. I will check into them for you. If you would like your serial number added to the master list we are putting togetner to learn about production, please send me or post the complete serial number.
Thanks, Dean

Olefogey
12-10-2004, 03:44 PM
Hi Dean,
Just got around to reading some back posts...I have Unique Model 17 and a Kriegsmodell. The Model 17 has the third type slide address, waA251 under the serial on the right side. Serial#44914. Grips with vertical ridges marked 7.65 mm 9 Schuss. The barrel has an eagle over a swastika on the left side and the remanants of a number that was removed? Looks like chrome plating on the barrel. It has two holes for a lanyard loop (no loop).
The Kriegsmodell Has the same slide address, same grips, WaAD21 on the right side of the receiver.serial # 68739. Barrel has the same eagle with assembly #770.

Hope this all helps the "List".
Regards,

Dave

Dgiz
12-14-2004, 10:43 AM
Dave,
Thanks for the numbers. I have added them to the master list. Not sure about your M17 barrel????
Dean

r_t_darc
10-26-2006, 12:25 AM
It looks like this topic has gone dormant for quite a while,
but I spotted another one to add to the research project.
It's a very early German occupation Model 17 with the
'bullseye' grips, this one numbered 21987. I found it
for sale at collectorsfirearms.com, so the photos are
not mine. How is the data list shaping up, and does anyone
else out there have any new pistols to add to the discussion?

Download Attachment: images/icon_paperclip.gif UniqueBullseye.jpg (http://luger.gunboards.com/uploaded/r_t_darc/20061025232143_UniqueBullseye.jpg)
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Guten Tag,

Rich M.

tague
10-26-2006, 01:40 AM
Hi!

This is my Unique 17. Third type of slide legend. SN 56004 Assembly number 46 on slide, frame and barrel. Marked with WaA251.

Gruß Günter

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Dgiz
10-26-2006, 10:28 AM
Rich,
You are right, it has been slow with Unique info! It really takes a long time to see some type of patterns. We have determined some interesting things.
Just a couple of them:
Serial range of the Unique 17 is larger than thought by about 1600 then the Kriegs start. BUT, in that range are 3000 Unique 16s!
Number of Unique 16s made is 3000 and their serial numbers occupy a block in Unique 17 production.
No German marked Unique 17s below 21,000.
One of the hardest Unique 17s to find is the Single line legend with Waffenamt. They fall into range 21,000-24,000. With only about 3000 made, they are as tough to find as the Unique 16!
Thanks for all the info and keep them coming...every one is important!
Dean

Dgiz
10-26-2006, 10:33 AM
GruB,
Thanks for the info! Yours is later in M17 production. A very nice looking pistol.
Dean

teiko41
10-26-2006, 01:25 PM
Unique 17, Serial Number 51666, 7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE", MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE, WaA 251, Black vertical ribbed grips marked 7.65m/m 9 SCHUSS

Don

Dgiz
10-26-2006, 01:40 PM
Hi Don,
Not sure if you gave me this one before..it shows on the list already!
Thanks and pass the word.
Dean
PS: Another odd ball M17 has been located...Sorry, but this is just a teaser! I won't have the pistol for a couple of weeks....Dean

Ogtree
10-26-2006, 07:01 PM
Dean,

I have Unique 16 serial number 27513, WaA251 and two magazines.
I don't remember if I have reported this to you or not.

Ogtree

nomadr
10-27-2006, 12:15 AM
Kreigsmodell 7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE" over MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE

ser #64416
Slide, frame, and barrel marked "431"
Frame marked WaAD20. E/S on barrel
Pistol is 95% with correct mag.
Bob

Dgiz
10-27-2006, 01:37 AM
Thanks guys! Ed, I have yours on the list, so you must have given it to me before. Bob, added yours!
Dean

tague
06-20-2007, 03:45 AM
Got this really nice Kriegsmodell yesterday.
SN 66303 internal number 520 on frame, slide and barrel.
Accepted with E/WaA D20 on frame and proof E/S on barrel.

Günter



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Dgiz
06-20-2007, 08:54 AM
Thanks Gunter,that is a nice one. I will add it to the list. Keep them coming!
Dean

Rogerbutthead
06-20-2007, 11:51 PM
I have one Unique pistol, but for the life of me I cannot find it. I only have this pic of it.

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Will continue to search for it if necessary.

Dgiz
06-21-2007, 02:30 AM
Thanks for the picture. I can get everything except the slide legend...its on the other side! It maybe a single or two line legend. If you can locate it, please let me know.
Dean

jobyt
06-21-2007, 06:29 PM
I have Unique Mod .17 ser.# 46012 Waa251 2-line slide legend,assembly #545. Also Kriegsmodel ser.#70393 WaaD20,2-line slide legend with assembly #848.Both have the ribbed grips;7.56mm 9 schuss.

Ogtree
06-29-2007, 02:35 PM
Dean,

I just acquired a Unique 17 with serial # 55781, WaA251, assy # 16. I need grips for it
since the panels on it now are handmade from plexiglass.
Condition on the metal parts of the pistol, including the barrel, is the best I have seen on one of these.
Ogtree

nc reb
07-06-2007, 05:53 PM
Dean ,For your list, 3rd variation mod 17 ,#43005 waa251 . Its pretty standard but I thought you might want the number. Walt Brown

Dstevens3
07-08-2007, 11:16 AM
Dean,

Hi! Here are a few more for you. Not sure if I gave you the serial for the Unique 16 already or not:

Model 16 - Serial 26579 WaA 251

Model 17 - Serial 22020 WaA 251 2nd variation slide legend and the Bulls eye style grips.

Model 17 - Serial 37257 WaA 251 3rd variation legend w/ the 7.65mm / 9 schuss grips
Dave

Dgiz
07-08-2007, 07:19 PM
Thanks everyone for the info, I will see it gets added to the list! Keep them coming!
Dean

tague
04-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Got another nice Kriegsmodell yesterday.
SN 72703 internal number 73 on frame, slide and barrel.
Accepted with E/WaA D20 on frame and proof E/S on barrel.

Günter

jeffred
04-16-2009, 10:45 AM
Just noticed this thread.
I have a 16 with serial #25921, assembly #568, waffenamt WaA251 and three line legend and bullseye grips.
I have a 17 with serial #43680, assmebly #21, waffenamt WaA251 and two line legend, lanyard ring with vertical lined grips.
Jeff

Dgiz
04-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Thanks! I will add them to the list.
Keep them coming in!
Dean

teiko41
04-16-2009, 12:41 PM
Here are my 2

Unique 17, 3rd type slide legend, grips are black plastic "7.65mm 9 SCHUSS", marked WaA251 on the frame, has a lanyard ring, S/N 51666, Assembly #152 on frame, slide & barrel

Kriegsmodell, 3rd type slide legend, grips were dark wood, checkered with a leaf design at the top, marked WaAD20 on frame, no lanyard ring (1 hole filled, 1 hole open), S/N 64891, Assemby #264 on the frame, slide, barrel and safety.

Still looking for the Unique 16

Don

Brap
05-02-2009, 11:48 PM
I have a Kreigsmodell serial # 70412 black ribbed "7,65mm 9 SCHUSS" grips,
Eagle proof on rear edge left barrel flat, lanyard loop, WaAD20 on right rear frame. Hope this is helpful.
Jay

Dgiz
05-03-2009, 03:27 PM
Thanks everyone! I will add them to the list.
More!!
Dean

Olefogey
05-03-2009, 04:28 PM
Dean,

Don't have the pistols handy, but do have the serials!! M17 #44914, Kriegsmodell #68739.
Hope this helps a bit.

Dave

Olefogey
05-03-2009, 04:30 PM
Dean,

Oops!! Brain not in gear!!! Already gave you that info!!

Dave

hbaerhe
05-14-2009, 07:16 AM
Dgiz
Two more Modell 17's for you (and one questionable Kriegsmodell)



1. Modell 17
2. 35705
3. Type 3
4. Vertical ribbed - 7.65M/M / 9 schuss
5. E/WaA 251 - assembly # 99 (or 66) marked on slide, frame, barrel and safety. Lanyard ring. Barrel has german military proof.


1. Modell 17
2. 36399
3. Type 3
4. Vertical ribbed - 7.65M/M / 9 schuss
5. E/WaA 251 - assembly # 830 marked on slide, frame, barrel and safety. Lanyard ring. Barrel has german military proof.

1. Modell Kriegsmodell (or Modele Rr51 Police ?)
2. 108830
3. Type 3
4. Vertical ribbed - RF
5. Algerian palm tre - assembly # 830 marked on slide, frame, barrel and safety. Lanyard ring.

Glocksmith
08-25-2009, 12:26 AM
One more for your data base -

1. MODEL - Kriegsmodell.

2. S/N - 71928

3. SLIDE LEGEND - "7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"
MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE"

4. GRIPS - vertical grooved black plastic, “7.65m/m” and “9 SCHUSS” in the center boss.

5. NOTES - Waffenamt : WaAD20, Nazi proof on forward right barrel flat, has holes bottom left of frame for a lanyard ring, (which is missing) Assembly number 121 on barrel, slide and frame. External hammer.

teiko41
08-25-2009, 01:08 PM
Here are my 2

1. Unique 17
2. S/N 51666
3. 3rd type legend
4. black ribbed, 7.65m/m SCHUSS
5. eagle/WaA251, lanyard ring


1. Kriegsmodelle
2. S/N 64891
3. Same as Unique 17
4. Same as Unique 17
5. eagle/WaAD20

May have posted before

Don

pistolgrip
11-10-2009, 09:14 PM
Hello,

Found this site and thread when this thread first started, and somehow forgot about it. :o

Since I am researching my Unique again, I decided to join up, and give the info on mine.

1. Pre-war civilian model 17 converted by the French military, supposedly just prior to the German invasion.

2. 6 digit S/N 402xxx with matching #xxx on barrel. Assembly #141 on both the frame and the slide.

3. 1st variation slide

4. Lion style grips

5. No German markings, but it does have the safety stud and the lanyard loop.


Here's a pic:

Do you have a serial # range / date of manufacture list made up yet?

Also, I am looking for factory mags if anyone knows where to find them. Mine has a shallow groove on the back where the catch slides on it, plus a rounded follower, and folded tabs on the bottom of the mag. It's 8 shot and approx 4 5/32 inches measured along the back.

Thanks ---Mike---

NativeTexanII
11-19-2009, 08:30 PM
7.65 court 9 coups "unique"
manufacture d'armes des pyrennees hendaye
33296
WaA251

-Stacy

armabill
07-17-2011, 01:11 PM
Unique 17, Serial Number 53280, 7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE", MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENEES HENDAYE, WaA251, Black vertical ribbed grips marked 7.65m/m 9 SCHUSS. Matching assembly number 614. 9 round magazine.

Unique 16 Serial Number 308148, not milled, (post/pre-war ?) MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENEES HENDAYE LE VERITABLE PISTOLET FRANCAIS "UNIQUE" MARQUE DEPOSEE CAL. 7.65MM S.F.M, grips marked "unique" across upper portion with circled lion in lower portion.
Matching assembly numbers: 18. No German markings. 7 round magazine.

damage93
07-18-2011, 12:25 AM
This is a Unique Model 17 with the second variation slide legend (7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"), SN 20833. It is marked with WaA251. The grips are black plastic (7.65m/m 9 SCHUSS). Photographs attached. My best to all, Joe

teiko41
07-18-2011, 12:11 PM
2 more I have picked up.

Unique 17, cal 7.65, S/N 267034, 3 line legend on slide, Black plastic grips marked Unique/ with Lion. matching assembly numbers 543. I believe this was made prior to 1940. No import marks.

Unique 15, cal 7.65, S/N 310272, 3 line legend on slide, Black plastic grips marked Unique/ with Lion. Matching assembly number 232.
I thought this was a Unique 16 when I got it, but using "Les Pistolets Automatiques Francais" by Jean Huon, I can only say it's a Unique 15 as it will only hold 6 cartridges and the slide appears to be shorter than the 16. Of course, I'm going by pictures when I compare the 2 pistols.

Don

inbox485
08-08-2011, 04:18 PM
I was looking at an old pistol for a friend and came across this. I registered just to add this data point:

7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"
MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYPENEES, HENDAYE.

Black plastic grip panels with FR logo inside a circle.

106414 stamped on right side of frame

414 stamped on barrel and slide

Gun_Shy
08-08-2011, 06:44 PM
This is a Unique model R, the post-liberation continuation of the German-occupation Kriegsmodel, now made as part of the rearmament of French military/police until the revised model Rr51 was produced in 1951.

The "414" are assembly numbers.

Does it have the Kingdom of Morocco mark (the so-called "palm tree" or "crescent with a pole") on the right rear tang? If so, this was intended for service in the (then) French protectorate of the Kingdom of Morocco. Along with having the s/n in a "trench", this mark is commonly found on these pistols around this s/n (and on MAB Ds of the same period).

Bill


I was looking at an old pistol for a friend and came across this. I registered just to add this data point:

7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"
MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYPENEES, HENDAYE.

Black plastic grip panels with FR logo inside a circle.

106414 stamped on right side of frame

414 stamped on barrel and slide

inbox485
08-08-2011, 07:15 PM
This is a Unique model R, the post-liberation continuation of the German-occupation Kriegsmodel, now made as part of the rearmament of French military/police until the revised model Rr51 was produced in 1951.

The "414" are assembly numbers.

Does it have the Kingdom of Morocco mark (the so-called "palm tree" or "crescent with a pole") on the right rear tang? If so, this was intended for service in the (then) French protectorate of the Kingdom of Morocco. Along with having the s/n in a "trench", this mark is commonly found on these pistols around this s/n (and on MAB Ds of the same period).

Bill

Thanks for the info. I couldn't find anything real specific on this variant. The only info the owner knew was that "it was a french officer's gun". I never would have guessed it was supposed to have been a palm tree, but yes it has the symbol. Also what do you mean by assembly numbers? I assumed it was just a repeat of the last 3 digits of the serial number. Do you have any sources on approximate date of manufacture, etc.?

ETA: I don't have photos handy, but it looks exactly like this (came up when I googled "unique model R"):
http://www.gunauction.com/Search/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=9717118

Gun_Shy
08-09-2011, 09:31 PM
Assembly numbers are the (usually) 2 or 3 digit numbers a manufacturer stamps on some, many, or all the components of a pistol in order that they can be identified and kept together when the pistol is disassembled. By the time this pistol was made it was standard to use the final numbers of the s/n for the assembly number, but until the 1930s it was common for the assembly number to have no connection to the s/n, which was usually added after the pistol was assembled and tested. Some early 20th century pistols have no s/n, just an assembly number.

Assembly numbers were especially important when firearm manufacturing still required a good deal of hand fitting of parts. For collectors, they are an essential indicator of how original a firearm is (ie, "matching numbers").

I know more about MAB than Unique pistols (although I have about a half dozen Uniques, including one of these "R" models), but the model R pistols date to between 1945 and 1951, with your pistol earlier rather than later in that range, probably 1946-47. Since Unique didn't close until about 5 years ago, and was producing variants of this pistol pretty much to the end (along with high end competition pistols and rifles), it may be that more exact dating of the s/n is possible.

I'd take the "French officer's gun" with a grain of salt, unless by "officer" we include "police officer" (or, more accurately, "constabulary officer"). The French army did not mark its sidearms (unlike the French navy), so this pistol was most likely used by the gendarmerie in Morocco. The gendarmerie, or constabulary, is a branch of the French armed forces but responsible for policing duties, especially outside of major metropolitan areas. They are not only in France, but serve in French-controlled areas outside of France.

Bill


Thanks for the info. I couldn't find anything real specific on this variant. The only info the owner knew was that "it was a french officer's gun". I never would have guessed it was supposed to have been a palm tree, but yes it has the symbol. Also what do you mean by assembly numbers? I assumed it was just a repeat of the last 3 digits of the serial number. Do you have any sources on approximate date of manufacture, etc.?

ETA: I don't have photos handy, but it looks exactly like this (came up when I googled "unique model R"):
http://www.gunauction.com/Search/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=9717118

Edward Tinker
08-11-2011, 10:14 AM
user=inbox485;180715.... I registered just to add this data point:
......
Admin note: I go through new registrations every couple of days and spammers are immediately banned, then if a person does not have a real name and/or location in their profile, I ban them, such as this new member.

As we move to the new forum, we will go through older members, those without a real name or location will be Temp put on Inactive Status.


I work security on a daily basis, it is very hard for me to believe that it is a security risk to state a First name and a State in your profile....

Admin

JPWDFW
12-21-2011, 09:54 PM
Dgiz,

Thank you for collecting and sharing information on the Unique 17.

I have one to add to your list -
Model 17
SN# 23170
Second variation one line legend
Groved black 7.65m/m 9 SCHUSS grips
It has Waffenamt WaA251 on the right side of the frame under the serial # and the Eagle over swastika on the left side of barrel. 514 is stamped on the bottom of barrel, inside of slide and inside of the frame. It does have the lanyard loop.

If I understand from reading this thread that this is one of the more rare unique 17's then I am pleased to let you know that one more exist and is in great condition with only minimal bluing wear.

Texas Bob
01-01-2012, 10:44 AM
Dgiz are you going to publish your listing and findings, or make it available for .pdf or excel format download? I have loved Uniques since I first bought and fired one 20+ years ago. And, have been collecting them ever since. I have 6 Morocco external hammered pistols (S/N's available if you need them), and 3 hammerless models. Two of the hammerless are Nazi proofed (S/N 40311 and 49056), and one with a S/N 4322 (yes, 4322) which is not Nazi proofed. Interesting story of acquiring the 4322 one.

Rmasters3
01-01-2012, 04:08 PM
64541Post war-no waffenamts but it has the Morrocan palm tree stamp. I've been told it's 1945 or 1946. Shoots great.

wsjax4
01-08-2012, 08:49 PM
All of the info I have found on the Internet involves five digit serial numbers. My weapon has a six digit serial - 112xxx. The left side of the slide says:

7,65 Court 9 Coups Unique
Manufacture DArmes Des Pyrenees Hendaye

The serial number is on the right side of the frame, above the trigger and below the slide. The grips have what looks like intertwined F and R within a circle. This one also has an external hammer. Behind the right grip is what looks like a capital I with a cresent moon above it.

Any info is greatly appreciated. I would particularly be interested in when it was made.

Thanks!

Gun_Shy
01-09-2012, 04:49 PM
6-digit s/n = post-WWII Unique model R, same as the German-occupation Kriegsmodell but used by French military & police, replaced by the Rr51 starting in 1951. The model R s/n run from 4-digit on the right rear tang (very early), skipping 5-digit (which were used by the Germans after dropping the initial digit of the pre-occupation Unique s/n), to 6 digits above the trigger, with the early versions in a sort of trench (used to make it difficult to alter the s/n on French military pistols). The observed s/n on the model R seem to end around 370000, which is presumably from 1951, which would suggest yours is from about 1946-47.

The intertwined R&F on the grips = Republique Francaise, or "French Republic"

The "capital I with a crescent moon above it" = mark for Kingdom of Morocco, at that time a French protectorate expected to become a permanent part of France (ie, an overseas province, like Alaska or Hawaii to the US). Usually called a "palm tree" or "pole and crescent (moon)".

Bill


All of the info I have found on the Internet involves five digit serial numbers. My weapon has a six digit serial - 112xxx. The left side of the slide says:

7,65 Court 9 Coups Unique
Manufacture DArmes Des Pyrenees Hendaye

The serial number is on the right side of the frame, above the trigger and below the slide. The grips have what looks like intertwined F and R within a circle. This one also has an external hammer. Behind the right grip is what looks like a capital I with a cresent moon above it.

Any info is greatly appreciated. I would particularly be interested in when it was made.

Thanks!

rbtf70
01-17-2012, 01:44 AM
Dean,

Here are a couple more for you:

Unique 17
SN 22051, Single line slide legend, E/WaA251 on frame and acceptance mark on barrel,
Grips with 'Target' design, Old style safety, Assembly number 154 on frame, slide,
barrel, and safety lever.

Unique 17
SN 50269, Two line slide legend, E/WaA251 on frame and acceptance mark on barrel,
Grips 7.65mm/9 Schuss, New style safety, Assembly number 443 on frame, slide,
barrel, and safety lever.

Both pistols have lanyard loops, and are in ~90% condition.

Hope this helps.

Dave H.

frederickthejust
07-26-2012, 03:59 PM
Hello! I found your site while researching this pistol. It belongs to my wife.
It is a Schuss 7.65mm pistol

Slide info:
7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"
MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE

s/n 31331 tiny mark "WaA251" beneath s/n
Ribbed grips of hard rubber(?)
lanyard ring bottom left of grip

Thanks and regards

moosedog
07-26-2012, 07:28 PM
s/n 43005 "WaA251" beneath s/n
Ribbed grips of hard rubber marked 7.65mm 9 Schuss.
lanyard ring bottom left of grip
correct holster with WaA D20

Dgiz
07-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Wow, lots of info added to this post. I will sit down and catch up and try to post some updates.
Dean

armabill
08-28-2012, 10:36 AM
Any Norwegian police pistols show up yet?

Dgiz
08-29-2012, 06:25 AM
Not that I recall.

armabill
08-29-2012, 08:42 AM
Unique Model 17 Norwegian Police: 7.65 Court 9 Coups "Unique", Manufacture D'Armes Des Pyrenees Hendaye. Eagle WaA 251 under 53488, assembly number 310 and barrel has Eagle. Top left of slide milled out and has "POLITI (shield) Nr.6101" with 6101 on frame, left of the safety. 7.65m/m 9 schuss grips. No import marks. Excellent condition.

ekim4
12-22-2012, 10:57 PM
Not to begin with an apology but this is all new to me as I just came across this Forum. I hope I am providing needed info. I have a Pistol that my wife's father brought back from the war. It is what I believe to be a 7.65 Court 9 Coups "Unique", Manufacture D'Armes Des Pyrenees Hendaye. It has an Eagle WaA 251 on the right rear. Barrel is marked with 203. Handle appears to be plastic with 7.65m/m 9 Schuss in the circle. Serial number is 31133. It has the lanyard on the left side. It appears to have been manufactured in occupied France based upon what I have read in this thread. IF POSSIBLE could you verify this based upon what I have sent you ? Thank you.

freehouse
12-23-2012, 08:39 AM
ekim4,
31133 was made in occupied Hendaye, France, probably in 1942 based off the serial number. Without a doubt it saw service with German Forces during the war. 203 is the assembly number, you should also see it internally on the frame, and under the saftey. It should have 15 serrations on the slide and the older style rounded base on the safety. Any clue on where your father-in-law obtained it?
Bob

ekim4
12-25-2012, 08:20 PM
Thanks so much for your reply. My father-in-law was a tanker during WWII. Given he joind the army after high school the time line would indicate he joined in 1944. If memory serves me correctly he served in France and later in the sweep west.

bayoned
12-31-2012, 11:20 AM
Here's my data.
Unique 17
Serial # 29722
WaA251
Lanyard staple on the left butt.
Black plastic grips, vertical grooves, "9 SCHUSS"
Type II slide legend. 7,65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE".

Gunner43
01-26-2013, 12:12 PM
I need help. i have a French Unique. research for model number yields conflicting info. i think it may be a very rare model 16. clip holds seven 7.65s, serial #25675, WaA251, barrel has eagle stamp and #148, frame #148. here are some pix. can anyone enlighten me?8515685157851588515985160851618516285163

Gun_Shy
01-28-2013, 06:51 PM
Yes, a MAPF/Unique model 16, in the same s/n range as other known WaA (same WaA) marked model 16s, with matching assembly numbers. A nice find!

About 2,000 model 16s were manufactured (or at least assembled and tested) during the German occupation, in the s/n range 25539-27616. If experience with other weapons manufactured under German control in France is a guide, this s/n range should be regarded as approximate rather than definitive.

Bill


I need help. i have a French Unique. research for model number yields conflicting info. i think it may be a very rare model 16. clip holds seven 7.65s, serial #25675, WaA251, barrel has eagle stamp and #148, frame #148. here are some pix. can anyone enlighten me?

txhunter1972
02-27-2013, 06:02 AM
i have a bring home from my grandfather model 17 i believe it has hidden hammer old style safety 8687286873868748687586876868778687886879black grips with bullseye single line slide waA251 with german proof on barrel matching part #211 on everything but mag.serial #22506 cant find much about it but did read a blog with same gun just a lil higher serial # and it supposed to be one of twelve known to surface any info would be appriciated

jeffred
02-27-2013, 09:35 AM
You may have a model 16, which has a mag that holds seven vs. nine for the Model 17. The grips are the clue. Believed only around 3000 made.
Jeff

freehouse
03-01-2013, 01:02 AM
Txhunter1972 has a Model 17, the one line slide is a left over from the French contract, as are the target grips. The Model 16 has different bulls eye grips with a banner stating CAL 7.65 mm. Nearly 5,000 were made under German control with one line slides, roughly serials 20000 to 25000 but a few are in the 28xxx range, so they are not that rare and many more than 12 are known. These grips are pretty standard for this serial range, the 9 Schuss grips started by serial 22944 but the bulls eye ones were still used sporadically after that.

What information do you seek?

Could you please describe the magazine? Does it have slots or witness holes on the sides? Is the bottom flat or do the two sides fold over? If it has folds, it might have a groove along the back side.
Thanks,
Bob

jeffred
03-01-2013, 09:33 AM
Photos weren't there when I was speculating.
Jeff

txhunter1972
03-07-2013, 07:37 PM
Txhunter1972 has a Model 17, the one line slide is a left over from the French contract, as are the target grips. The Model 16 has different bulls eye grips with a banner stating CAL 7.65 mm. Nearly 5,000 were made under German control with one line slides, roughly serials 20000 to 25000 but a few are in the 28xxx range, so they are not that rare and many more than 12 are known. These grips are pretty standard for this serial range, the 9 Schuss grips started by serial 22944 but the bulls eye ones were still used sporadically after that.

What information do you seek?

Could you please describe the magazine? Does it have slots or witness holes on the sides? Is the bottom flat or do the two sides fold over? If it has folds, it might have a groove along the back side.
Thanks,
Bob

it is a 9 round mag has 8 witness holes flat bottom pressed by 2 dimple's on each side,bullseye grips have no writing or any other marks other than bullseyes

Sgtrock50
03-09-2013, 10:41 PM
Hello, I just aquired a .25 cal Pistol.

Description: Manufacture D'Armes Des Pyrenees Handaye, E Veritable Pistolet Francais Unique

Capital "F" Next to the Safety Catch Serial # 318556

Magazine: 5 holes on each Side, Right side of Magazine is marked with a F over N stamp. No other markings are visible.

The firearm was brought home from France by a WW2 Vet, Tank Crewman, Shermans. He was in Battle of the Bulge etc..

Thats all I know so far. Hope this helps with your research. Feel free to contact me.

bruno38
03-09-2013, 11:40 PM
A 7,65mm 9-schuss Unique Model 17 for you:

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww215/bruno38/DSC_3652_zpsb0b64abc.jpg

Bruno

Nagoya10
04-21-2013, 10:55 PM
Unique 17, German occupation. 2 line address on slide, serial 56001 with WaA251. Black ribbed plastic grips, 7.65mm over 9 schuss. With lanyard ring.

893138931489315

armabill
04-02-2014, 06:37 PM
French Unique R17 (7 rounds) serial number: 433966
assembly number: 30 (all matching)

(left side of slide): "MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENEES HENDAYE”


(right side of slide):

Cal 7.65m/m
“LE VERITABLE PISTOLET FRANCAIS 'UNIQUE'

Slide Top: “Made in France”


The grips are brown plastic with an arrow pointing inward at each of the 2 screws and 7.65mm Unique within a circle in the center of the grip. Short extractor and no palm swell.

Etzi
06-22-2014, 06:06 PM
Right: armes Unique - Hendaye B.P France
S/N: 691882

Left: MODELE "B/cf.-66" - MADE IN FRANCE

Top: CAL. 7.65m/m (32)

Guys my Grip is stuffed up quite bad. Any idiea's on replacing this? Where? How? How Much?

Thanks

LU1900
06-22-2014, 10:06 PM
Etzi , you have a 7 , 9 shots

crafttree
10-19-2014, 09:29 PM
Hi all,
I am gathering information on the French pre war and German occupation Unique pistols. This information will be added to a master list being established by French pistol collectors and available to collectors. It is their goal to establish a time frame and serial number range (or ranges) for the pistols produced by Manufacture d'Armes des Pyrennees Francaises (MAPF). This list will include information regarding Model types, variations and serial numbers. Only we, as collectors, can repair the damage done by passing time and lost records.
Here is what is needed.
1-MODEL such as Unique 10,16,18,17 (any and all models). The German occupation ones, and Kriegsmodelle.
2-The complete SERIAL NUMBER.
3-For Unique 17s, the type of SLIDE LEGEND(see example below),

Examples of slide legends on Unique 17s:
Variation one, Three line legend Pre war:

"MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE
LE VERITABLE PISTOLET FRANCAIES 'UNIQUE'
MARQUE DEPOSEE CAL. 7.65MM S.F.M"

Second variation, one line legend (French military contract):

"7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"

And the third type (German occupation):

"7.65 COURT 9 COUPS "UNIQUE"
MANUFACTURE D'ARMES DES PYRENNEES HENDAYE"

4-The type of GRIPS on the pistol.

5-NOTES: to include markings such as Waffenamts (WaA251 or WaA20), Police units, GECO, additional numbers, Property marks, lanyard rings, safety stud added (17s) etc"

This is the only way we can put together the puzzle of pistol production and procurement. Maybe we can answer some long asked questions such as "Was there a new serial number range for German weapons?", "Did the German Unique 16s have their own serial number range?", "How many M17s did France recieve before the invasion?". Similar information is also being collected in France. No personel information is released without owners permission. Please post your information on this forum or you can email me at [email protected] Your pistol could be the missing piece!

Pre war Unique 17 and German Unique 16


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Three line legend on early Unique 17s and German Unique 16s.


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Lion grips on early 17.


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I acquired a unique model 17. I bought it from a lady whose husband took it off from a dead german durning WWII. The ser # is28494, the slide legend is one line,the grips say 7.65 mm 9 schuss, there is a marking on the frame waA251. View slots on the clip. matching parts # 211. lanyard loop also
http://luger.gunboards.com/asset.php?fid=105917&uid=19772&d=1413772902
Dick115235