View Full Version : Matching a holster to a Luger by date and unit stamp
Jan C Still
06-03-2010, 02:14 AM
HISTORY MARKED IN STEEL AND LEATHER: MATCHING A 1910 DATED UNIT MARKED IMPERIAL LUGER TO A 1910 DATED HOLSTER MARKED TO THE SAME UNIT
Have a Luger dated 1910 and unit marked 3.J.P.3.: 3 Jager zu Pferde Regiment weapon no. 3. With the generous help of Refurb (Dow) this Luger was matched to a Reichsrevolver converted holster also dated 1910 and marked to the 3 Jager zu Pferde Regiment. See link below:
1910 JAG.R.z.Pf.3 Holster http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=22736
Figure 1. Right slant view, 1910 DWM, serial number 3882d, unit marked 3.J.P.3.
Figure 2. Top, 1910 DWM, serial number 3882d.
Figure 3. Left, 1910 DWM, serial number 3882d. These had commercial style (hidden) serial number placement.
Figure 4. Front of frame and bottom of barrel of 1910 DWM, serial number 3882d. The barrel is marked 3882 / d / 8,83 and the frame 3882 / d. The serial number of the take down lever is in the commercial style (hidden).
Jan C Still
06-03-2010, 02:19 AM
Figure 5. Grips, 1910 DWM, serial number 3882d. They are not numbered.
Figure 6. Inside right grip, 1910 DWM, serial number 3882d. Stamped under left grip: KRAMER. LTN. INFT. RGT. No 27.
Kramer is not a common German name. Research by Klaus Schad indicates that a “Kramer from Reserve Jager 17, transferred to 27 Inf. R. and K.I.A. July 15, 1918 south of Treulope. “ Any additional information on Kramer would be most appreciated.
Figure 7. 1910 DWM, serial number 3882d, details of 3.J.P.3. unit stamp. Haloes (faint) are around its digits and letters. It signifies 3 Jager zu Pferde Regiment Stab, waffe no. 3.
Jan C Still
06-03-2010, 02:23 AM
Figure 8. Front and back of 1910 dated holster bearing JAG. R.z.Pf.3 unit markings on the inside of flap.
Figure 9. JAG. R.z.Pf.3 unit markings on the inside of the holster flap. A boxed 1E (1 Eskadron) is likely a later stamp.
Figure 10. Details of holster markings. The manufacture stamp L.RITGEN / KARLSRUHE (sp corrected by Klaus) is under the unit stamp.
Figure 11. Rig, 1910 Luger marked to the 3 Jager zu Pferde Regiment reunited with 1910 dated holster marked to the same regiment. Both are very rare.
Jan C Still
06-03-2010, 02:25 AM
Figure 12. The Imperial German Regimental Marking Revised Edition, 1998, by Jeff Noll
is an indispensable reference to the study of Imperial German unit markings:
Figure 13. Title page.
Figure 14. Page 171, of The Imperial German Regimental Marking, Revised Edition, listing of the thirteen Jäger zu Pferde Regiments and Eskadrons and the World War I Divisions in which they served.
Figure 15. Front cover Ruhmeshalle unsere alten Armee; this large book contains tradition and detailed battle history of the various Imperial German World War I regiments.
Figure 16. Historic- tradition information of the 3rd Jager zu Pferde Regiment, from Ruhmeshalle unsere alten Armee. It was founded in 1-10-1905 and its headquarters/base is Colmar 1. E.
During World War I the 3rd Jager zu Pferde Regiment was part of the 39 and 30 Infantry Division and the 39 Cavalry Brigade. It spent the War battling on the Western Front.
World War I Battle History of the 3rd Jager zu Pferde Regiment. Notes from Ruhmeshalle unsere alten Armee; and The Histories of 251 Divisions Divisions of the German Army which participated in the War 1914-1918
SUMMARY DIVISION OR BRIGADE WORLD WAR I
1914-1916, 30th Div.15th Army Corps
1916-?, 39th Div.15th Army Corps
Nov. 1918 39th Cav. Brigade
1914 Seventh Army, Alsac-lorraine, Avricourt, Tergnier, Craonne, and Hurtebise Flanders
1915 Flanders, to 4th Army
1916 to 39 Div. Verdun, Woevre, Douaumont, Vaux, Heavy Losses;
Somme, Oct. 20, Attacked by French at Sailly Saillisel, Acted with Assault Troops Very Great Losses
Verdun, Nov.11, Louvemont Road- Chaufour Wood Attacked
1917 Argonne, Champagne, Artois, Flanders, Artois
1918 Transferred to the 39 Cav. Brigade
Figure 17. World War I battle scene showing a Jager zu Pferde patrol.
06-03-2010, 07:57 AM
Very nice, a very hard to try and accomplish!
Jan, that is one fantastic luger/ holster rig associated to the "Hunters on horses". The condition of both is jaw dropping for 100 year old pieces. Thanks for the excellent(as usual)presentation of this personalized luger. Dow did a great service for his part in in bringing the two together again. The holster alone is a collectors prize. Best of luck in the quest for information on its former owner. Thanks, John
06-03-2010, 08:36 AM
Jan, it doesn't get much better than this. Congratulations and thanks for sharing this with us.
06-03-2010, 08:50 AM
That's pretty phenomenal. Congratulations on completing this beautiful and rare rig. You've beat the odds.
Okay Dow, your next assignment is to find the Luger that matches my Reichswehr Ministry Signal Battalion marked holster.;)
06-03-2010, 08:58 AM
Beautiful rig and great presentation, thanks Jan, Regards, Norm
06-03-2010, 09:21 AM
Jan... The condition is just outstanding. I suspect none of us will look that good when we get to be 100 years old.... Thanks for sharing........
06-03-2010, 02:44 PM
Jan, congartulation to your new and nice rig. I looked for Kramer in a 1908 dated book about all officers in the Army (in 1908) but could not find him mentioned in the Inf. Reg. 27.
Kramer is perhaps not so common as Müller or Meyer in Germany but there are many Kramers and also Krämers. Perhaps I can find him in a 1910 dated "Rangliste"- we will see.
By the way: The holster was made by L.RITGEN in KARLSRUHE.
Best regards Klaus
06-03-2010, 09:42 PM
Striking pair and an excellent and informative (educational) presentation.
06-04-2010, 10:36 AM
Jan, another spectacular presentation of rare and impressive artifacts. Well done.
06-04-2010, 11:04 AM
I have a particular fondness for cavalry units and one of my nicest helmets is a Jäger zu Pferde. Your gun and holster are outstanding. I for one am very glad you could put them together. You are doing collecting and history a great service.
06-04-2010, 11:08 AM
Enjoyed your presentation. Thank you.
06-04-2010, 01:55 PM
A real home run Jan. Congrats.
06-04-2010, 03:57 PM
Way to go Jan!! Bill
Jan C Still
06-06-2010, 08:25 PM
Thanks to all that replied!
Thanks for your information and corrections.
06-07-2010, 08:51 AM
It's incredible what can be achieved with the assistance of a true collector friend.
Congratulations to Jan (for the nice rig) and to Dow (for the nice gesture).
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