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PICTURES - 1911 Erfurt - unit marked

5K views 22 replies 10 participants last post by  texulocu 
#1 · (Edited)
All,

I'm new to the boards, and to Lugers. I inherited my father's Luger. I've been learning about it by reading here. It is a 1911 Erfurt. I will post pictures soon. It has unit markings, and came with a holster, just one clip though (aluminum bottom...when was the wood used?)

So please help a newbie understand something. My dad said he bought this Luger in the late 1960's from a WWII vet's son whose father took it off a German prisoner. The vet was in a Nisei battalion (Japanese Americans who fought in Europe) and took it from a German in Italy.

Did the German Army collect them after WWI and re-issue them before WWII? Like when the soldier who was originally issued it in 1911 left service, they put it in the armory and re-issued?

Sorry for no pictures yet...I hope to get them on tonight!

Thanks,

Pdxsk

UPDATE: Adding pictures

A couple notes..one of the grips has damage, it was repaired you'll notice. Also, the locking bolt is NOT original. My dad said (take it with a grain of salt) that when the vet brought it over from Germany, he had to make it non-fireable to get it back to the States...but I don't know if that is true or not.

Can anyone tell me what the unit markings represent?

Thank you :)
 

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#2 ·
Many WWI service weapons were used in WWII especially Lugers. How does the unit marking read and what is the serial number?
 
#5 ·
Markings

8,84 is the land to land measurement; that it met acceptable standards and thus was marked.

Welcome to the forum Scott


Ed

Thank you for the info! I'm getting an education here. I posted pictures of the many marks on the pistol. If anyone can tell me more about the history of what those marks mean, I would love to read it. The unit markings, etc. Or suggest a book I could reference to look them up would be great too.
 
#6 ·
The unit mark indicates that the pistol was issued to a medic in WWI and before. The unit was the 12th Train Battalion, second medical company, weapon 247. All German medics were armed with pistols.

I have two 1911 Erfurts here that were issued to the 1st and 2nd companies of the 12th Train battalion. The only 1911 Erfurts that I have seen marked to medical units were to the 12th Train Battalion. None of the DWMs I have seen marked to medical companies were issued to the 12th.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Re-blue or not?

Thank you for the unit explanation and what a cool picture!

This gun sat in my dad's closet for the past 40 years. I remember shooting it in the 80's with him.

I've read lots about whether or not a Luger has been reblued and straw percentage...can you tell by the pictures if this was reblued?

Also, if anyone can give me an idea of what amount to insure it for under my homeowners, I would appreciate it. I'm wondering if the replaced locking pin and cracked grip on the one side take away from the value very much.

Scott
 
#10 ·
My 1912 erfurt marked b.1.t.s.2.243

This 1912 Erfurt Luger is marked to Bavarian Train Battalion 1, Medical Company 2, weapon number 243. Or in German, Bayerisches Train-Bataillon 1, Sanitats-Kompagnie 2, Waffe Nr. 243. It came with one matching magazine and 1911 dated holster.
 

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#11 ·
Very nice Harry. It's the only 1912 Erfurt Bavarian Train I have seen but falls right in amongst a cluster of Bavarian 1912s I have listed.
 
#12 ·
Scott..I think the takedown might be Swiss? I'm wondering if the replaced locking pin and cracked grip on the one side take away from the value very much.

Yes, yes and did I mention yes? All of these deficiencies cost you. In unmolested shape this pistol might be $2500-3000+ but JD gave solid advice..$1000 pretty much tops IMO.

Jerry Burney
 
#13 · (Edited)
Lowered value - buffing and bluing..ugh!

Scott..I think the takedown might be Swiss? I'm wondering if the replaced locking pin and cracked grip on the one side take away from the value very much.

Yes, yes and did I mention yes? All of these deficiencies cost you. In unmolested shape this pistol might be $2500-3000+ but JD gave solid advice..$1000 pretty much tops IMO.

Jerry Burney
My mother tells me my dad had the 1911 Erfurt cleaned, and test fired at a gunsmith school in Denver in the late 1960's before he would fire it...at that time he told them "sure, you can re-blue it"...he had lots of fun with it shooting over the years. Despite the decrease in value that caused, I'm very happy he got to enjoy it and I hope it's a good start to my Luger collection!

I read up on the unit markings. It appears that 12.T.S.2.247 was, as stated above but in basic terms, issued to the 1st Royal Saxon Train Battalion No. 12. I found a picture online of the units'...crest? Insignia? Not sure what to call it. This is from 1910, but I wonder if it was the same when the pistol was issued.

I've had lots of fun looking up the unit history. I only wish I could tell where the Luger was from after WWI until WWII and what unit had it in WWII!

Thank you all for the information!

Scott
 

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#14 ·
Scott, having your dads luger, knowing how much he enjoyed it, and how much you will enjoy it, in my opinion trumps its monitary value. He did what he thought was best at the time, getting it freshened up. Enjoy it for what it is. Now that you have a really cool shooter, you can focus on the next one being a true collectors piece. Be carefull, this hobby is very addictive. Get some good books and study so you don't get burned. John
 
#22 ·
It is certainly not a Sanitaets unit. Ir is also probably not Imperial era but rather Weimar or Third Reich. I would need to know more about the pistol in order to try to develop some ideas about the grip strap markings. Can you post some good deatailed photos of the pistol in great detail?
 
#23 ·
Hello Geo,
No, sorry, I did not save any other photos of this gun. 2 years ago, it was on sale at a spanish gun site, and I was interessed in it. But the letters Xed made me doubt and think it was a fake; I am no expert in this. I do not remember what era it was from, Weimar or Imperial. Sorry, I can not help further. if it were today, I would buy it at first sight, for sure !!!
Roberto
 
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