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Ortgies 6.35mm serial number list

81K views 144 replies 78 participants last post by  codyjones0610 
#1 · (Edited)
Friends,

Following is a list of serial numbers (and features) of Ortgies 6.35mm pistols I have observed and which have been reported to me. Please report other examples if you are able to positively confirm the serial number (even the first few digits), and also provide as much information as possible about presence or absence of "Germany" marking, the pistol's finish, slide legend, grip material and grip medallions.

Please note: I am currently only compiling information about the 6.35mm/.25acp Ortgies pistols, not the 7.65mm/.32acp and .380 pistols! See title!


Notes:

Grip material is wood unless otherwise noted.

The “Germany” note means that this marking occurs in the normal location over the serial number. Any other location will be noted. The confirmed absence of a “Germany” marking will be noted by the phrase ‘NOT marked “Germany”’. If no mention is made either way, there is not enough information to tell.

The notes “3-line”, “2-line” and “1-line” refer to the slide legend. Additionally, “2-line” refers to the commonly encountered “Deutsche Werke Aktiengesellschaft…” slide legend. The “Ortgies Patent/D.W.A.E.” legend is also 2 lines, but given its rarity and to avoid confusion, this legend is specifically identified for the few pistols on which it has been recorded.


A word about nickel finishes:

Nickel finishes, either matte or bright, appear to be factory original unless noted otherwise in the description.

It should be assumed that pistols with a matte nickel finish have strawed triggers and safety buttons, as no exceptions have been observed save for one factory engraved model (No. 65433). However, bright nickel pistols will have the finish of the trigger and safety button specified (more below).

Although it is true that guns finished in bright nickel are usually encountered with fire blued triggers and safety buttons, sufficient numbers of bright nickel plated pistols have been noted with nickeled triggers and safety buttons - including a couple pistols for which the serial numbers are not available - to cast doubt on the prevailing belief that all factory bright nickel Ortgies 6.35mm pistols had fire blued small parts. I believe this is an assumption based on insufficient data. That doesn’t mean it might not turn out to be true, but as of now I have not seen any justification for it. Like everyone, I’m aware of the existence of refinished/re-nickeled guns and I proceed with caution when encountering any nickel gun. The bright nickel pistols I reference above (with nickel-plated small parts) have finishes that compare favorably with the best of their fire blue counterparts and, were it not for the fire blue “litmus test”, I think they would be considered factory original by even the most suspicious of collectors.

In my opinion, the finish on the triggers and safety buttons of bright nickeled pistols should not be the determining factor when considering the question of factory originality, at least until many more examples have surfaced.

17x, blue, “Germany” 3-line, “HO” grips
198, blue, “Germany”, 3-line, “HO” grips
282, blue, 3-line, “HO” grips
591, blue, NOT marked "Germany", 3-line, "HO" grips, Austrian proofed 5771.21
714, blue, “Germany”, 3-line, “HO” grips
725, blue, 3-line, “HO” grips, Austrian proofed x7x7.21
754, 3-line
765, blue, “Germany”, 3-line, “HO” grips
1356, blue, NOT marked “Germany”, 3-line, “HO” grips
6755, blue, NOT marked “Germany”, 2-line, “HO” grips, with holster
9067, blue, 2-line, “HO” grips, Czech proofed rampant lion/22
9091, blue, NOT marked “Germany”, 3-line, grips appear either ivory or plastic with no medallions
10726, blue, 2-line, “HO” grips
11933 (Koelliker's article - no info about legend, but context suggests 2-line), slide proof located on lower right rear corner behind serrations

12868, blue, 2-line, “HO” grips
13515, blue, 2-line, “HO” grips
15115, blue, NOT marked "Germany", 2-line, "HO" grips
16413, blue, "Germany" 2-line, "HO" grips

17577, blue, 2-line, in box
17991, blue, “Germany”, “HO” grips
18743, blue, “Germany”, 2-line, “HO” grips
21072, blue, “Germany” 2-line, “HO” grips
21075, 2-line, “HO” grips, lowercase “a” under the serial number
21330, “Germany”, 1-line
23486, 2-line
24347, blue, NOT marked "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips, with holster (bringback)

24408, blue, 2-line, “HO” grips
25192, blue, NOT marked “Germany”, 2-line, “HO” grips
26782, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
29011, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips, small letter "a" under serial number

31911, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
31996, blue, 1-line, "D" grips

36733, nickel (with nickel trigger and button) – can’t tell bright or matte due to lighting, NOT marked “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
38598, bright nickel (with fire blue trigger and button), NOT marked “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
38857, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
40758, blue, "Germany" stamped into both grips, 1-line, "D" grips
41728, blue, 1-line, “D” grips
44884, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips

4574x, matte nickel, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
46146, matte nickel, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
46527, bright nickel (with fire blue trigger, can’t see button), “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
46531, bright nickel

48023, matte nickel, 2-line, “Germany”
48032, matte nickel, 2-line, in box
48550, matte nickel, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips, in box
48959, matte nickel, “Germany”, 2-line, “D” grips
48975, bright nickel (with fire blue trigger and button), “Germany”, 2-line, “D” grips
50424, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
53532, blue, 1-line, "D" grips

54208, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
54251, blue, "Germany", "Ortgies Patent/D.W.A.E." slide legend, "D" grips

54314, “Germany”, “Ortgies Patent/D.W.A.E.” slide legend
56562, "Germany", "D" grips, with holster

56954, “Ortgies Patent/D.W.A.E.” slide legend
56957, “Ortgies Patent/D.W.A.E.” slide legend
58096, blue, "Germany", "Ortgies Patent/D.W.A.E." slide legend, "D" grips

59050, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
59557, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips

59788, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
59988, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
60050, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
60465, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips, in box with manual
61466, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips

62071, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
64061, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
65433, matte nickel, NOT marked “Germany”, 1-line, full coverage deep etching in vine and leaf motif with gold plated trigger, extractor, safety button and magazine catch. Has ivory grips with “D” logos. Appears to be a factory original “deluxe” model. Accompanied by a suede purse holster (no maker markings).
65781, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
65925, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips
66120, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips
66158, matte nickel, NOT marked Germany, 1 line, "D" grips
69696, blue, Germany, 1 line, D grips
69996, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
70476, blue with fire blued trigger, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
73054, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
73083, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips
73868, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips, with holster and spare magazine

75350, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
75550, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
76308, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
76562, blue, 1-line, "D" grips

77329, blue with light scroll engraving (originality uncertain), “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
78495, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips, left grip medallion is crooked
79760
80291, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips
82920, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips

86566, blue, 1-line, in box
92122, blue, 1-line, “D” grips, in box with cleaning rod
95686, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
95710
97218, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
97436, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
100140, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips
108001, blue, "Germany" 1-line, "D" grips

109852, blue, 1-line, “D” grips
111878, blue, 1-line, “D” grips
111927, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
111986, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
115997, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
116383, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
118196, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
119609, bright nickel (with nickel trigger and button), 1-line “D” grips
120389, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
126883, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips, with original box, cleaning rod and manual

129328, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
131930, bright nickel (with fire blue trigger and button), 1-line, “D” grips
1346xx, blue, 1-line, in box
1359xx, matte nickel, 1-line
137154, blue, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
139168, bright nickel (with nickel trigger and button), “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
142153, 1-line, "D" grips

144593, blue, 1-line, “D” grips
154407, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips, acquired from daughter of German American Bund member
156967, chrome finish (including trigger), "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips, repro mag
159336, nickel (including trigger and safety button), "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips

159366, blue, 1-line, “D” grips
159393, blue, "Germany", 1-line, "D" grips

159699, blue, 1-line, “D” grips, in box with manual
161247, blue, 1-line, “D” grips
163210, blue, 1-line, “D” grips, with holster
176700, blue, 1-line address
180684, bright nickel (with nickel trigger and button), “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
180699, bright nickel

181309, bright nickel (with fire blue trigger and button), “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
181774, bright nickel, 1-line
181825, bright nickel (with fire blue trigger and button), “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
181989, bright nickel (reported with fire blue trigger, button assumed also)
182625, matte nickel

182657, matte nickel, “Germany”, 1-line, “D” grips
 
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#5 ·
Robert, thanks for reporting your Ortgies serial number, I appreciate the contribution. I do not mean to doubt you, but are you absolutely, 100% certain that the serial number is 79361? No chance that the first digit is a "1" and not a "7"?

The reason I am double checking is that I have never heard of a 2-line with anywhere near this high of a serial number. Don't get me wrong, I am always open to new information, especially regarding unusual examples that re-define the serial number limits of different variations, or which might indicate so-called "clean-up" pistols that makers sometimes produced to use up old parts/inventory. The discovery of such pistols can be very exciting. However, I have to be extra careful in such instances so as to avoid posting wrong information.

Another thing: have you ever disassembled your Ortgies, and have you checked to make sure the serial number stamped inside the slide matches the one on the frame?
 
#8 ·
Thanks Robert - I will update the list with the new serial number. Also, when you get a chance could you just clarify whether it's 79361 or 79631 (I think you transposed the last two digits between posts 3 and 7). For the moment I'm putting down 79631, please be sure to correct me if that's wrong.

I appreciate your willingness to share information, thank you again! If you ever get the opportunity to share a photo of this unusual Ortgies, please do. It is by far the highest numbered 2-line I have ever seen or heard of.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I think the problem may be that this is a .32cal. and not a .25cal., or are my eyes that bad?
Tim H.
 
#13 · (Edited)
My Ortgies 6.35

154407 Single line "Germany" blue wood grips
Also have the owners manual.
I should also add that I acquired my Ortgies from the daughter of a German American Bund member.

Jim
 
#15 ·
4 more

Bob,

You may include the following 6,35 Ortgies reported long ago by Donald W. Koelliker in "Gun Collector’s Digest", which do not appear in you database yet:

SN 11933, unspecified details
SN 46531, nickel-plated, unspecified legend
SN 180699, nickel-plated, unspecified legend
SN 182625, nickel-plated, unspecified legend

Have fun! ---/ Bruno
 
#18 ·
In his article, Koelliker states on page 86:

Prototypes do exist, however; I have a 6.35mm prototype in my collection serial number 754.
But he fails to elaborate on this puzzling statement. Why does he consider No. 754 to be a "prototype"? Earlier in the article he says he owns No. 282, but does not identify this earlier pistol as a "prototype". Anyone have any idea what he thinks is special about No. 754?
 
#20 ·
Francis, thanks very much for the link. That is an interesting one; if the seller has accurately reported the serial (at least the first three digits), it would make it the highest numbered 6.35mm Orgties recorded to date by a fair margin.

I may try to contact the seller to confirm and maybe see if he can provide a photo of the number.
 
#22 ·
I have the following .25 cals.:
1. #29011 (small letter "a" under number), blue, Germany, 1 line, D grip;
2. #58096, blue, Germany, 2 line (Ortgies' patent/D.W.A.E.), D grip
3. #73083, blue, Germany, 1 line, D grip;
4. #80291, blue, Germany, 1 line, D grip;
5. #82920, blue, Germany, 1 line, D grip;
Tim H.
 
#24 ·
Rob, Tim and Joe, thank you all for your willingness to share data. It is much appreciated.

Tim, it is very exciting to see another report of a rare "D.W.A.E." marked Ortgies 6.35mm. With the addition of yours, this makes a total of 4 in the database: Nos. 54314, 56954, 56957 and 58096.

I don't know whether you are photo-capable at present, but if you could possibly manage to post a picture of this scarce variation, it would be a great addition to the thread. Personally I've never seen a photo of a pistol with this slide legend - only verbal descriptions.
 
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