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Thread: death head luger

  1. #71
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    anderson 659

    If you go back to the original post of the luger you will note that the luger is from the WW#2 era, in particular an 1940/42 code serial number 20.

    In respect to your questions concerning, Roumanian,Polish and Serbian troops I believe these were German conscripts, either you join us and fight or you go to the camps for slave labour.Poland as you may be aware did not invade Germany or make the fatherland it's ally, Poland was basically persecuted in the initial throws of Nazi invasion.

    The Hussars units were pre WW#1 units with the totenkopf insignia, after WW#1 the old soldiers that opposed the communist onslaught to Germany formed the freikorps to tackle this communism invasion, many of the Freikorps went on to become the SA stormtroopers. The old totenkopf insignia was carried on to the freikorps by these same soldiers.

    Now you bump this up to the Third Reich era and you have the infamous SS with the deathhead on thier caps and badges.

    Lugers themselves were regulated just the same as all German ordanance and small arms, the small arms had to be inspected and proofed--ie the stamps of the period eagle 135, eagle 655, eagle/swastika, what the members are saying is that the SS were not above the proofing laws of the day and had to have sidearms officially accepted, SS runes and the totenkopf insignia are not official acceptances/proofs.

    Factories that were overun by the Nazi's were utilized by the Germans to supply the growing needs of German troops, the WaA inspectors were installed in these factories to accept or reject the pistols produced in occupied countries, this is why you see Polish Radoms,Hi-powers,CZ's and the like with nazi inspector acceptances.

    The fact that luger serial number 20 has had it's acceptances removed and placed further along the receiver causes this particular luger to be suspect, had the booster left the original WaA stamps alone they would have been better off.

    You will note that the right hand forward part of an lugers receiver was the official place for the inspectors acceptances, nothing else in the researched documents on lugers stipulates other markings were permissable.

    The story coupled with the luger has so many holes that the swiss would be in competition for the finest of cheese.

    In order to fully absorb the contents of what is bieng said in this topic it is important that you look at history, the manner in which the Germans accepted their small arms,the earlier totenkopf insignia compared to the one in the photo of the WW#2 holster against the Freikorp photo from WW#1, greed in todays world supported by the price attached to the luger in the Guns/America add.

    This obviously does not fully answer your question of other death head marked weapons but it is the lack of them on small arms that begs the question pertaining to the originality of the luger that was referenced.

    I hope that this reply has cleared up a bit of your concerns,if possible could you post some photos of the polish troops with the deathhead insignia.

  2. #72
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    anderson 659 and lugerlou and others, this is kind of apples and oranges. To this luger it doesn't pertain, as the stamp on the luger itself is obviously bogus on the right. I think that it is possible other items were marked by the polish, etc., but we would have to see specific stampings and compare them to the ones we see on luger holsters.


    Ed

  3. #73
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    LugerLou,

    The gun in question has had a fork stuck in it. Take a look at Polish militaria,(polishmilitaria.com) by Wesolowski, a noted Polish reference for Polish medals and awards,death heads were common symbols in WW2. Please check out the illustrations, and he has many on Ebay and his personal site for sale under the numbers I listed with a photo( #749, #799). He is a much better reference than my personal pictures . There were more than a few "death head" symbols among the Polish troops in WW2, I listed one just for illustration. There were other "death head" troops as well among other belligerents, and the Polish who wore the swastika before WW2, at the time of the Nazi's in many regiments, and others during the war with the Nazi's.

    Again, I have no quarrel with the conclusion on the gun. I asked two questions, is there other death head possibilities, and my hypothetical about the WW1 Luger, I still hope someone can answer either one.

  4. #74
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    Anderson659
    1) Although some Imperial German units used Death Head insignias in various accoutrements, cap insignias for instance, there is no evidence that issue Imperial handguns were ever marked with a death head. Purported P08 pistols so marked are very questionable and if not outright fakes were marked after 1918.
    2) Nazi proofed Polish weapons, such as the Radom, are proofed with a Nazi, not Polish, eagle.
    3) Lugers could have been marked with the stars and bars, but they were not. However if there was a market for CSA marked WWII equipment it would show up on Ebay
    regards, heinz

  5. #75
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    quote:Originally posted by Heinz

    Anderson659

    3) Lugers could have been marked with the stars and bars, but they were not. However if there was a market for CSA marked WWII equipment it would show up on Ebay
    Heinz, not the Stars and Bars and not a Luger but close enough...

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    " 'To everything there is a season...a time for war and a time for peace'. and this is the time for war". Reverend Peter Muhlenberg, January 21, 1776, Woodstock, Virginia

  6. #76
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    Geo is that you on the M60 (?) or one of your crew?

    ed

  7. #77
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    That would be the driver, I was operating the camera.
    " 'To everything there is a season...a time for war and a time for peace'. and this is the time for war". Reverend Peter Muhlenberg, January 21, 1776, Woodstock, Virginia

  8. #78
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    George, That is not a pistol! In fact I believe that equipment belongs to the Army of Northern Agression.
    regards, heinz

  9. #79
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    You all should have heard the Battalion Commander's (LTC Wright) thoughts on my searchlight cover when he first saw it.
    " 'To everything there is a season...a time for war and a time for peace'. and this is the time for war". Reverend Peter Muhlenberg, January 21, 1776, Woodstock, Virginia

  10. #80
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    And is he painting "MARDI GRAS" on that turret? Nice photo by the way.
    regards, heinz

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