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rare Early six shot conehammer nr 32

4K views 19 replies 8 participants last post by  Mauro 
#1 ·
Hi
You will find for your pleasure some pictures of a very rare early C96 pistol "Rucklauf-pistol System Mauser 1896" serial number 32 . I sold it a fews mounth ago, but the pictures are still in my database
 
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#2 ·
Gillus,

This pistol was most likely part of the factory collection which lends credence to the thought that your Nickl pistol may of also come from it. Both being low serial numbers and in excellent condition certainly makes them candidates IMHO. I am sorry to read that it is no longer in your collection. Now I wonder what other Mauser treasures you have. Being a Mauser enthusiast myself I am curious if that is also the focus of your collecting?

Regards,
 
#4 ·
Hello This pistol was given to a friend by an old widow 2 years ago in the noth of the city of Nice by the french riviera.

- - - Updated - - -

Hello
Ihave been posting most of the pictures of the wonderfull Mauser object that i sold in my shop, i am a vintage guns dealer, and i must sell the items instead of collecting them, i will post any news items for the community information!
 
#5 ·
Collecting is like holding a lantern walking on a dark road searching for "widows" (i.e. unrecognized rare valuable items). I bet most collectors having luck finding small to mid ones after a while, but finding such a big one must be once in life opportunity.
 
#6 ·
I'm reminded of a line from an old Burt Lancaster, spy-type, movie: "Mister my mother is already dead, who do I have to kill ?"............WOW!! Alvin is correct: "once in a lifetime........."
Merci beau coup...for showing it to us.

Rick Engel
NRA Benefactor Member
NAPCA Member
 
#8 ·
Alvin is correct: "once in a lifetime........."
Great moment does not come often. There is a nursery rhymes saying that:

"At ancient time, there was a peasant,
He saw a running rabbit hitting a tree on the roadside.
With the dead rabbit in hand for dinner, he smiled.
Starting from that day, he did not work anymore,
just hiding behind the tree everyday waiting for the next rabbit.
The next rabbit never came,
and his land grew full of weed."

Thanks for showing us this ultra rare item.
 
#10 ·
This one should be 7,63 MAUSER. It could be reworked to other caliber, but it's made as 7,63 MAUSER. At least, supposed to be that way. The finish looks good except some cold blue on the barrel and floor. It's not as rare as s/n 32, but it's also rare.
 
#13 ·
Most Mauser collectors would say that this pistol should be in caliber 7,63 Mauser since it as the characteristics of a M1902, but when the evolution and unique designs of these pistols are carefully analyzed and recorded, it will be observed that some of these experimental pistols were made in caliber 7,65 mm Parabellum for a reason.

It is to long for me to explain the information, but the caliber of that Bolo pistol serial #28826 is correct in my opinion as I know the whereabouts of another one on the mainland a few numbers away.

Albert
 
#11 ·
This is one of the test-series Bolo's. The S/N is correct for the range, no slot for the shoulder stock, fixed sight, long rails,renforced chamber. Possibly one of the hammer safety guns converted to small hammer later (see E&P p. 181). B&S mentions a similar gun in 9mm long and vol 1 of KMS book mentions a 7.65 para gun.
 
#15 ·
If it was other caliber, it's possible. But 7,65mm Parabellum? From Mauro and Vlim's work, we know Mauser disliked Luger. Mauser's personality had common element of a regular human (say, he wanted to make more money), but also had unique element, he did not run pragmatism. Even after German adopted 9x19mm officially, he did not adapt his gun to fire that cartridge... if I think about that, that's very different from today's gunmakers, say, one cartridge is adopted, then everyone want to make guns shooting it to increase sales, who cares who designed it. He did not do that. And, consider his feeling on Luger.... it's hard to believe he had any interest in 7,65 Parabellum.
 
#16 ·
In spite of what you are saying, these various early M1902 pistols were in-house samples for evaluation and were made in very limited quantity in caliber Mauser 7,63 mm, 7,63 mm Export and just a few in caliber 7,65 mm Parabellum to get an idea how one of these pistols would perform with a similar cartridge made by their competitor.

The other M1902 pistol in caliber 7,65 Parabellum a few numbers away happens to be M1902 Joint Safety which I have examined in my hands about 20 years ago.

By the way, I have in my archive an original General R. Wille booklet on the M1902 C96 pistol (including the two variations of the joint safety) which is extremely rare.

Albert
 
#17 ·
There is one thing that could tell. Say, if it were originally 7,63mm reworked to 7.65mm, its chamber modified, but it's highly unlikely for a gunsmith to change rifling twist rate. Same should be true if it's the other way around, say, it's made as a 7,65mm pistol. What's the twist rate of the bore? I mean, for how many millimeters the rifling lines of this pistol turning 360 degrees?
 
#18 ·
Hello All,
From the Paul Mauser and Mauser Archive point of view I cannot provide so far a final statement to this interesting question about the 7,65mm caliber.

I will check more in the early Mauser Ledger but you need to know, and this is quite evident in the extracts of the ledgers available in the book, that when the early C96 pistol were sold, in the Sale Books it was simply noted "Pistole" with the number of shot 6/10/20 just before. No mention about the caliber.

Only with the introduction of the 9mm caliber and mainly after WWI, in the ledgers it is possible to find the mention "Pistole 7.63 9mm". The reason why of this odd way to record the pistol is available at page 445 of the book.

Albert, you mention the General Richard Wille, Paul had a very friendly relationship with him. In the diaries it is possible to see evidences of meeting with him. In the Paul Mauser address book you can see also the address of Gen. Wille (page 346 of the book).

What it is very cool, see chapter "The studies of General Richard Wille" page 346-348 of the book, is that in the Mauser Ledgers it is clearly reported when Gen. Wille acquired arms from Mauser.

We can trace, page 347, in which day and the cost of the Gen. Wille Mauser C96. Wille used this first acquired C96 as a testing specimen for his first book "Mauser-Selbstlader (Selfloader Mauser)" in 1897.

Gen. Wille presented to Paul Mauser his two booklets (Mauser-Selbstlader and Selbstlader Fragen) and they are in the archive with the Mauser Stamp.

Regards,

Mauro
 
#19 ·
Hello Mauro,

Your will be fascinated to learn that two of my four General R. Wille booklets (with hardcover turtle-shell designs) are from the DWM factory archive. I recently bought them from a widow living near to Karlshure whose late husband was an ammunition collector and a friend. The Wille booklets are the following:

1). Early semi-automatic pistols including the Borchardt pistol which is unique so far;
2). The Mauser C96 pistol;
3). The M1902 C96 pistol;
4). The M1901 Mannlicher pistol and carbine with color foldouts.

They contain plenty of information in the German language which I have difficulty reading despite being a German national. I need to ask someone in the future to help me with a translation.

When researching different Mauser pistols, it is beneficial to examine as many different early models - and ammunition - to learn how business was developed and conducted at the Mauser factory. Paul Mauser did not really want the DWM factory to supply ammunition for his firearms, and I believe that he wanted to explore business with the Nobel Dynamit company in Sweden to supply the munitions for the Turkish Contract carbines and C96 pistols.

His business with the Turkish Contract is very important during the design and initial marketing of the C96 pistol despite the limited available information found in literature.

You should have contacted me for information and my opinion when writing your recent book, but I suppose authors can often be reluctant to share information which tends to limit the exchange of knowledge.

Regards,
Albert
 
#20 ·
Hello Albert,
Congratulation for your great find. The Gen. Wille booklets are very interesting and rare indeed. They are also an evidence of the specific marketing Paul Mauser was used to do.
As I have written, the Paul Mauser diaries show a long relationship between Mauser and Wille, and Mauser for sure used this friendly relationship to advertise the C96 with these booklets - actually he was right because the Italians mentioned in the documents and letters exchanged to finalise the Italian C96 navy contracts the study of the Gen Wille as main reference (see page 372 of the book).

Even more rare and for certain aspect more interesting the booklet written by another friend of Paul, Prof. Dr. V. Bruns in 1897 - it is a complete interesting story about the impact on the human body and horses of the ballistic performance of the C96 pistols. An incredibly detailed study showing the effects of the 7.63 ammunition.



Also this book is of course in the Paul Mauser archive like the ones from Wille.

Thank you also for mentioning the Ottoman - Mauser relationship; for this I have opened another topic, please refer to:

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?80090-Mauser-Turkish-Relationship&p=604066#post604066

Regards,
Mauro
 
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