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P06 Commercial Navy Luger BUG markings on Barrel

5K views 19 replies 10 participants last post by  kopperkeith 
#1 ·
G'day Guys,

This my first Luger - It is a Commercial Navy 1906 (6inch barrel, Grip safety, BUG marking, Safe in UP postion) It has the Geiherst on the bottom which is covered in the photos

I used the online PDF doc to workout the markings

http://selfdefensefund.com/wp-content/uploads/Luger.pdf (Index lookup chart 1 on page 29 - to then go to lookup index #32 on page 63-64)

Just asking for advice if anyone has come across this type of Navy P04 and would know who were the the target market users and any other information is appreciated (Not looking for value/appraisal)

Many Thanks

Keith
 

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#4 ·
Hi Keith,
Welcome to the forum! Since your gun is a Commercial I would guess that the "target market" was anybody who could afford to pay for it. Interestingly, Commercial Navy #51386 is listed in Dwight Gruber's Commercial Luger database among a large group of Commercial Navies that were exported to the U.S. in 1913/1914.
Regards, Norm
 
#5 ·
Hi Keith, and welcome.
Not many of the commercial navies around, and no doubt even fewer in your part of the world.

Good questions, I've "wondered" about the market also, especially since I bought a very similar pistol #25,056.
Mine has a name "engraved" on the front strap, an owner no doubt; and is on the sales list of Hans Taucher of June 1913.
H. Taucher was the rep. for German pistols, located in NY, NY before the first war.

Here are a couple pictures showing the similarity and safety marking you mention; these "early" pistols are safe in the "up" position, and arrangement that was later changed.

 
#7 ·
Thank you all for your input - Will research "Dwight Gruber's Commercial Luger database" .. It definitely doesn't have any previous owner details/names inscribed - Very plain jane - It did come with a a black plastic NAVY base magazine(I believe this is an aftermarket one).

I am unsure on the Halo effects - The Barrel does look legit - The blueing is very good in some areas and Pitted in some.

It does have matching numbers on all the components - and Geladen on the extractor.

I am just surprised that this was an export to the US and has at some stage been acquired by someone in AUS

So excited to have a functioing 100+ year old piece of history and share it with the future generations :)
 
#9 ·
Oh this is very intriguing - Thanks Dwight :) Quick question were the commercial from the sales list of Hans Taucher of June 1913 built in 1913 - were they all handgrip safety models with the Gesichert on the bottom?.

What do the experts reckon - were any Navy commercials sent to AUS or any Commonwealth countries?

Unless someone, somewhere did a great amount of research to create a perfect fake P04 1st issue 1906 with a serial number which never exisited -

I will need to research with the Firearms Registry in AUS - Hopefully I can get some help from them - (subject to pirvacy laws)

TA for all your help guys and chiming in :)

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry Ignore

"were any Navy commercials sent to AUS or any Commonwealth countries"

It doesn't have Germany on it so wasn't exported I believe - Will check with the Dealer or FFL and Firearms registry

Cheers

KK
 
#12 · (Edited)
Pics attached

My confusion is why would the top be so very well done-while the frame part is so worn out and look like someone hand painted some faint bluing on it.

The frame has the full serial number 51387

The last 2 digits 87 are on the side plate (right on the bottom), Take down pin, Trigger, Grip safety, Lug under Barrel, on the Bolt (including the B and U markings on the side - along with the flowery DWM logo on top), at the back of the sight, under the barrel full serial number 51387 and BUG commercial markings and the 11835 - It also has just the alphabet N and 87 when you pull under the bolt where the firing pin is.

The frame on the other hand has provisions for the grip safety i.e. hole and notch for spring on the frame.


There is a P and digit 2 marking on the front of the frame near the locking pin and provision for under barrel lug. P marking where the toggle fits in. On the magazine release side right at the bottom it has a 4 an I or 1 marking in the middle and I believe a B where the hand grip spring starts.

On the other side on the top of the frame near the toggle side there is a U marking. I couldn't find any other visible marking.

It does have the B and U commercial markings on the slide which the barrel is fixed in to.

The Grips fit perfectly but don't have any markings on the inside and are slotted for the grip safety.

The firing pin has Geladen and safety is clearly marked see as GESICHERT

Just don't understand why have the barrel/bolt/toggle etc so nice and Shiny and leave the frame like some toddler used water based colours to paint it.

is the inside of the frame supposed to same bluing all over?
 

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#16 ·
All the markings are consistent with your pistol having been made circa 1911, just before the new German proof laws were implemented. DWM stopped using the old British gauge method of indicating caliber at the same time.

It does appear there are some traces of blue on the rails, which indicates at least a partial reblue of the top half, or perhaps some application of cold blue. Obviously not in the best overall condition, but it seems to be all matching and correct.
 
#17 ·
Many Thanks Mike

Do the markings on the Frame make sense?

Yes It is a shame the frame is so out of Blue - and seems like over all the gun has roughed it and been neglected.

I know there are probably less than 20 Navy Lugers in Australia and this is a legal "H" class firearm you don't need a collectors license for this, so it makes it even further scarce + it is a 1906 1st issue Commercial Navy.

I don't know if I should get it all restored to a nice looking gun - But I do intent to shoot it and will take it to the range next week.

What do you guys reckon - restore it ?
 
#18 ·
Frames have very few markings, Mike said they look ok. Do you have a specific marking question?

Restoration- a question that can be debated till the lights go out. It is yours- you have to decide.
Personally, I'd rather have it as is if original; but it seems it may already have been monkeyed with a little.

Do you have someone in Australia who can do a really original rust blue with hand polishing?

For sure do not let someone do a high polish hot blue job on it! JMHO.
 
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