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Thread: WTB: EWB, REV and PwB marked arms

  1. #11
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    George and all the others,

    here an other sample of a BE- marking on a BAVARIAN
    Reichsrevolver.
    I have some doubts whether it is a Railway stamp.

    "Bayerische Eisenbahn"? I think there was also the
    "Deutsche Reichsbahn" in Bavaria as in the whole Reich, may be "Bayerische Staatsbahn". But it should be possible to clear it.

    Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] M79 mit BE- Stempel.jpg
    169.04KB
    Heinrich

  2. #12
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  3. #13
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    While on the topic of RR markings don't forget the Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft; I have a Kar 98a Erfurt 1916/1920 with PwB over 1920 branded into the right butt and buttplate tang marking D.R.G. over 258.; it has a pivot pin added to the rear sight.
    When the 1914 shows up I'll list here what I've got for Pw.B.


  4. #14
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    Hallo Heinrich,

    My designation of this marking as "Bayerische Eisenbahn" is certainly provisional. Thank you for the picture of your "BE" marked Bavarian Reichsrevolver. It is always nice to see identical markings on other weapons.

    Here is my logic. My S98/05 bayonet was Bavarian issue with Crown/L over 18 markings on the spine and it has not been reworked with the exception of the "BE" branded marking on both grips. This would indicate to me that this "BE" marking is probably between 1918 and 1927. I have seen very similar branded markings with the distinctive "B" and "E" on Bavarian Einwohnerwehr weapons. If this were an Einwohnerwehr marking it would be "EWB" as seen on other Bavarian Einwohnerwehr weapons. It is something different. There is a striking similarity between these two branded markings and the dies used to make them. This leads me to believe they are in fact Bavarian markings on both your pistol and my bayonet.

    The Königlich Bayerischen Staatseisenbahn ceased to exist as that named entity at the end of the war in say, December of 1918. German Eisenbahner were in flux during the interim time from 1918 to 1924. The Staats-Eisenbahn-Verwaltungen were merged into the "Deutsche-Reichsbahn-Geselleschaft" only in 1924. I believe this marking is very probibly from the time period from 1918-1924.

    As I say, it is only an unproven theory at this point but it seems logical to me that the "Königliche Bayerischen Staatseisenbahn" would evolve into an entity identified as the "Bayerischen Eisenbahn."

    I could be persuaded otherwise with contrary logic or period marking protocols. What do you feel the "BE" marking represents?

    George
    NRA Endowment Member
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    Certified Police Armorer

    "You can't please everyone so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  5. #15
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    Don,

    I believe that "KS" indicates Kassel because there was a good sized railhead facility at Kassel with quite a few personnel, a school, and it is listed as a "Direktion" in the 1942 edition of the Reichsbahnbeamte Beamten-Kalendar. "KS" is really the only good fit, although Königsburg might also fit the letters. These railway markings are really very obscure as they don't match with government markings. For instance, the early 1922 Prussian Polizei markings show Kassel as indicated by "C" because the old spelling of the city was Cassel. The later 1932 Prussian Pol markings show Kassel as "Ka" which is also confusing. Königsburg is consistently shown as "Kg" in both sets of Prussian Polizei marking protocols.

    Without published marking protocols it is "best guess" I am afraid.

    George
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    "You can't please everyone so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  6. #16
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    Craig,

    I did not mean to try to hijack your wanted thead. The responses are developing into an interesting discussion.

    You are absolutly correct about the Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft. It seems the Deutsche Reichsbahn published Dienstkleidungsordnung (DKO) in May of 1924 that brought some order to the uniforms of the Interimzeit from 1918 - 1924. This seems to be when the "DR" markings became a more standardized property marking. I have not seen these "D.R.G." markings in the flesh before, can you post them for us to look at?

    Another one of those pesky Railway Police markings to be on the lookout for.

    George
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    "You can't please everyone so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  7. #17
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    George, your rationale seems as good as any. I am beginning to think that one way of abbreviating location names was to use the first two consonants, both letters capitalized. There is a M1900 FN Browning marked K.P.D.DR where the R is slightly smaller than the other letters. This has been identified tentatively as the Royal Police Directorate Dortmund. I'm not sure I'm completely sold on this but don't have a reasonable alternative. I am almost sure it is not Dresden.

    Craig, I too apologize for helping send this off on several tangents.

  8. #18
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    WaA66

  9. #19
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    Schupo, Donmaus et al:
    No problem with the way the thread is going - looks like we have started something interesting.
    I have a camera at last but Luddite that I am I haven't figured out how to work the thing yet so until I do I am stuck with describing the markings.

    WaA66:
    Many thanks for the M12 lead; I'm on it . It looks like it might be one of the Bavarian 1916 contract Steyrs, which would make perfect sense; I've laid a number of them end-to-end and always suspected that some might have made it into the EWB.

    As a side observation on EWB materiel, I've seen a number of EWB weapon permits over the years but so far every one has been for a rifle - no carbines or handguns yet.

  10. #20
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    Don,

    I took a couple of new photos today. Here is an example of the "RBD Kassel" marking in a wartime Bahnschutzpolizei tunic. This at least proves that these markings did exist and that Railway Police clothing and equipment was issued from this railhead.

    Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] RBD Kassel tunic marking.JPG
    59.9KB

    All "RBD" markings I have seen have been associated with a place (i.e. Kassel). All "DR" markings seem to be simply generic railroad property markings and are not necessarily associated with a specific place. Here is an example of a "DR" marked S84/98 commercial bayonet like the "RBD KS #" marked bayonet shown earlier.

    Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] DR marked bayonet.JPG
    39.93KB

    Notice that the "DR" marked bayonet is not associated with a specific place. It only has a weapon number for inventory purposes, similar to the "DR" marked CZ27 pistol. Here is a "RBD" carbine butt plate marking that is associated with a specific place.

    Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] RBD butt plate marking.JPG
    26.3KB

    This "R.B.D. Hl." marking indicates a place that is abbreviated "Hl." I believe this is Halle because it was a RBD railhead. Hamburg and Hannover had railheads but they do not fit. The Prussian city of Hildesheim has been suggested for this marking, but there was no railhead at Hildesheim and the Prussian Polizei abbreviation for this city was "Hi."

    It is very difficult to know these place name abbreviations for certain, but those are my "best guesses." I am always open for new information.

    George
    NRA Endowment Member
    KSRA Life Member
    Certified Police Armorer

    "You can't please everyone so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

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