Rework Proof?

[scat97]

Can anyone tell me who the funky little eagle ArA4 1920s rework proof was used by. I know what it is, I just need to know who applied it to reworked Lugers.
Mike

[Ron Smith]

Mike,

It's not a rework proof. Eagle / ArA4, AyA4 and WaA4 proofs are only found on new production 1920 and 1921 Military and Police, no suffix, a & b suffixed Lugers.

Ron

[scat97]

Thanks Ron. I ran across an internet Luger site that noted that proof as early 1920s military and police rework proof. Appreciate the correct info.
Mike

[Ron Smith]

Mike,

The "rework" fallacy stems from the misguided belief that the "1920" Government property stamp is a rework stamp.

The German Gov't and the Military contracted to DWM for approx. 50,000 new production 1920 and 1921 Lugers. These were all in the "no suffix, a & b" suffix blocks. 40,000 went to the police, and 10,000 went to the Military. Rarely, a few of these will be found with "double dates" as in 1920 /1920 or 1921 / 1920. The year of production and the Gov't property stamp.

Another oddity , which is rare, is 1921 being used as a Gov't property stamp. As in 1917 / 1921. This is most likely due to mis-interpretation of the marking order by the armorer. I have even seen one example with 1922 applied as a Property mark.

Long story short, if a Luger has a 1920 or 1921 date stamp, and it has Eagle ("Dove") AyA4 ("Buzzard") , ArA4 or WaA4 proofs, or a combination of these proofs. Then it is a new production 1920 or 1921 Luger.

If it has has a double date and has Imperial proofs. This does not mean it was "reworked". It simply means that it was stamped with a Gov't Property mark, indicating that it remained in the Gov't inventory after WWI.

Here's an illustration from Jan Still's "Weimar Lugers", showing the proofs.

Hope this is clear enough...

Ron

[scat97]

Yep, that's the birdie alright. It's good to know, as I wasn't familier with those proofs at all on DWM parts. Thanks again
Mike

[donmaus]

For the record, the "AyA4" stamp is a misreading of the ArA4 stamp which represents section 4 of the Ausrüstungs-Amt (Procurement Office). This office became the Waffen-Amt in 1921 and the stamp changed to WaA4. See p. 131 of Görtz & Bryans' German Small Arms Markings.

[scat97]

Correct, Don. My proof in question, under 8x magnification, is certainly A, lower case r, A4.
Mike

[hawaiico]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

Mike,

The "rework" fallacy stems from the misguided belief that the "1920" Government property stamp is a rework stamp.

The German Gov't and the Military contracted to DWM for approx. 50,000 new production 1920 and 1921 Lugers. These were all in the "no suffix, a & b" suffix blocks. 40,000 went to the police, and 10,000 went to the Military. Rarely, a few of these will be found with "double dates" as in 1920 /1920 or 1921 / 1920. The year of production and the Gov't property stamp.

Another oddity , which is rare, is 1921 being used as a Gov't property stamp. As in 1917 / 1921. This is most likely due to mis-interpretation of the marking order by the armorer. I have even seen one example with 1922 applied as a Property mark.

Long story short, if a Luger has a 1920 or 1921 date stamp, and it has Eagle ("Dove") AyA4 ("Buzzard") , ArA4 or WaA4 proofs, or a combination of these proofs. Then it is a new production 1920 or 1921 Luger.

If it has has a double date and has Imperial proofs. This does not mean it was "reworked". It simply means that it was stamped with a Gov't Property mark, indicating that it remained in the Gov't inventory after WWI.

Here's an illustration from Jan Still's "Weimar Lugers", showing the proofs.

Hope this is clear enough...

Ron

What do you mean by new production?

[Edward Tinker]

Instead of being "reworked" they were made new in 1920 and 1921 by DWM