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Thread: Llama Model I Rig, GECO import 1943

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Somewhere in Northern Italy
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    123

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    Very nice indeed, thanks for sharing!
    Sergio

    Anything with a FLGR is fluff, if JMB didn't put it on the 1911 you don't need it.
    If you are going to collect, don't be 'drawn' to an example that is not original, nor correct. Instant gratification is more expensive than a good education
    .

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Brazil (South America)
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    4,472

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    This kind of out of ordinary item is something I really love.
    Congratulations!
    Collecting data about Brazilian Lugers.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    44

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    Hi Sam. Dredging up this old post because I picked up one of these. I would like to start the long journey of locating the proper holster. Can you provide some general measurements on yours? There is soo little information out there. I think this is going to be a tough task. Unless you locate one with the holster its going to take effort to match one up.

    Jeremy

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,042

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    There are no standard holsters for the private purchase pistols that were carried. The holsters would also be private purchased and have no military markings. As long as they were flap holsters and black, I'd think they would be acceptable.
    Here's one of my Llamas with the holster that came with it but I've seen them with others.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
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    44

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    Understood. I figured as much. Sam said as much. I just kind of thought there maybe a most commonly used "universal" holster. What were the ones in GECO listed at the time? I guess I will just have to look for one with an imprint from a Llama.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SE. PA.
    Posts
    1,413

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    Jeremy, Congrats on your pickup! They are difficult to find. The gun that is. were you able to get a 9mm or 7.65? I do not believe the caliber makes a difference as to holster size but mine of course is the 7.65 cal. My holster is no doubt original to the gun because it is one of those Ersatz holsters and is formed to the gun. luckily, its still rather soft. I have seen a few in the same style holster. The overall length is 7.5 inches high. the top is 4.875 inches wide and the toe is around 1.375 inches wide. because its that ersatz material and is a little bent and rounded and stiff at the toe, it could have been around 1.5 inches originally. the mag pouch itself is 4 inches long and that includes the edge below the seam to the top of the pouch and is 1.5 inches wide seam to seam. Hopefully that gives you enough to go on. but yes, because they were private purchased the individual would have have had the opportunity to purchase whichever style holster he could afford or liked or was available at the time, but like I said, if you do a search on these guns I have found numerous ones that were rigs and they seem to be in these reddish brown ersatz holsters so do not discount those when looking. Feel free to post pictures of yours, I would love to see it and I am sure others would as well.
    Sam.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    44

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    Thanks Sam. It will be a few days before i get it in hand but once I have her and clean her up I will post. It's a 7.65. Thank you for the dimensions... that at least gives me a framework from which to start searching. I don't think that I would have normally been looking to find a holster (as I think it will not be easy) but it is coming with 2 mags... so it is hard to resist making a rig. One mag is slotted, not sure on the other yet. I just wish there some more information out there on these guns. They seem pretty neat.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    , CA., USA.
    Posts
    72

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    Here is another holster you can look for.
    My Llama .32 (Geco), 1943, came in this holster. A holster like this is shown in Whittington's book on page 169, he states Sauer 38H. Mine is brown pebble grain (not pigskin as mistaken by many collectors) and is die stamped inside the flap RBNr. 0/0365/0012 it is a perfect fit for the Llama.
    Since no one has ever gotten any info from Llama, and they are no longer around, we probably will never know how many went to Germany. These might not all be "private purchase" they could have also been sold to the German military or Police and unmarked. The Geco marked Astra 200 pistols are said to be German Military, and the Astra 400's, some Star Model B's, and almost all Berettas don't have German acceptance markings.

    DavidDSCN8195.jpgDSCN8194.jpgDSCN8192.jpgDSCN8199.jpgRSCN8201.JPGDSCN8198.jpgDSCN8202.jpg

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    SE. PA.
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    Super nice Rig David. Interesting theory you have. It is true that many guns are not waffanamt'd but are German military procurement. add to your list the Astra 300 in both calibers as well as the Astra 900. the first few 300's in 9mm were not and none of the 7.76 cal were marked. Then you have the Norwegian 1914 which only the last few were marked and so on. So it is possible. The Llama is a nice gun. That being said, the commercial importers are found in a specific range and interspersed within that range. I find it hard to believe that in between a government procurement they would divert guns to a commercial importer.
    Sam.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    118

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    Like David states, we will probably never know how many were sent to Germany, I believe Whittington's estimate of 1,000 is very low. While they are not common, they are really not too scarce either. I see 5-6 a year for sale without looking too hard. I collect the serial numbers of these in a census, and judging from that, I think the number of GECO marked ones could easily be several thousand, but with the 9mmK being very scarce. I walked into a pawn shop once and saw a 7.65 mm one, unfortunately with an electro pencil number added, but I still snatched it up. For as often as they pop up for sale, they can't be as rare as Whittington estimated.

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