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Thread: K Date S/42 Code Luger, Data Request

  1. #31
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    Dec 2003
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    , Antwerpen, Belgium.
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    Default

    Jan, two more K-dates found:
    PIA -site: # 5342; Ö|37-Ö|37, Scriptic S on toggle - Roman S on some parts, Short sharp barrel band, no Mauser hump, sear safety, 2 matching magazines Ö37 having 1, 2 Police markings, Indentions not clearly visible. (Out of sequence?)
    FGS -site: # 2029; Ö|37-Ö37, Scriptic S on toggle - Roman S on some parts, Short sharp barrel band, Mauser hump, no matching magazines, Indentions visible.
    Joop van de Kant, co - author of:
    "The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946"
    Analysis of a Million Luger Pistols

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    windermere fl
    Posts
    48

    Default k date 4423

    hi Jan
    I have K date 4423 in my collection.I've shown it to some other Mauser experts and they seem to think it's good.what do you know about this Luger to say that it's FAKE.
    regards
    Tom

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    North of Spokane, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom denning View Post
    hi Jan
    I have K date 4423 in my collection.I've shown it to some other Mauser experts and they seem to think it's good.what do you know about this Luger to say that it's FAKE.
    regards
    Tom
    Tom, see the thread from 9/21/2005 https://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ht=4423&page=2 where the previous owner states:
    I am the owner of the Luger in discussion. Please note that I mention that the gun has been fabricated and that I ask them to email me for detailed description. I have been EXTREMELY forthright about the gun. The gunsamerica site only allows 300 characters or so for a description so the complete description was impossible. Here's the detailed description that I have sent to anyone interested:

    Serial number 4423 9 mm cal 3 7/8 barrel. I believe this gun to have been partially fabricated so that is why the price is so low. It was my first purchase of a Luger rig from one of the BIG luger sellers but as I've learned more and more about lugers and how they can be manipulated as well as the sellers reputation I realize that this K-Date has been "improved". I paid a fortune for it.
    Here's the scoop:
    1934 Mauser S/42 K-Date with 2 matching but re-numbered mags, 1 correctly proofed loading tool, 1 1934 date holster. The S in S/42 is Gothic as is the one in front of the trigger guard, side plate, trigger & ejector. There is a regular S on the right side of the receiver, the mag release, extractor, front & rear toggle, safety lever. The front strap has been polished so to remove a marking of some sort. There is a unit mark of S. 38. on the back of the frame by the lanyard loop. All numbers match. There is an S on the right side of the receiver over the B90 and S91 proofs along with an eagle. Grips are very and fit the gun well. They are proofed and marked S but no number that I can make out. The bore is VG to Excellent. The finish is 94%, looks original and is bright and pretty.
    Now for my suspicians: The chamber looks ground and the K is not deep. I have not seen another up close to compare.
    Also the B90 and S91 receiver proofs are lightly struck. The 2 mags have been ground and renumbered to match the serial. They are also proofed S and B90.
    It is a nice looking rig that has filled a hole in my collection
    for a while and can do the same for someone else at a decent price. I am sure that whoever buys it will double the price and sell it to someone else as original.

    I have received much praise for being honest about the gun but now have lost the sale due to this message thread. By the way the price was reduced, which would have made it a decent price for a shooter luger with a an original holster and loading tool.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    windermere fl
    Posts
    48

    Default

    thanks Ed for the reply. i was sold the kdate as is with the mentioned suspicions.i got a bargain price (the holster and tool are worth what i have invested) the top of the luger looks spot on. the frame appears to be WWI with a unit mark on the back of the frame under the lanyard ring. the luger has been examined by several collectors and they agree. with the Germans in post WWI time, it might be possible they used left over parts to get new orders to the army filled.? it looks very nice in my display of lugers from k to 42. if and when i sell it, it will be just that. a questionable luger that presents well.

  5. #35
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    Aug 2003
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    AK, USA.
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    Tom
    “ they agree.with the Germans in post WWI time,it might be possible they used left over parts to get new orders to the army filled.?”

    This subject was debated in the pages of AUTO MAG about 10-20 years ago. A fake K date (two matching mags) with remnants of Weimar Era military proofs and unit marks was the subject. The mostly ground off markings were exposed in detail through the use magnuflux (spelling). Gortz (personal correspondence) pointed out that the Mauser military contract was for new Lugers and that use of refurbished Weimar parts was not consistent with German liability laws. I believe the owner of that Luger is /or was on this Forum.

    Please post photographs of your K date.
    Thanks
    Jan
    Jan C Still
    Site Owner - Operator

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Jan
    Im glad to see you entered my info on #1919

    Thank you
    Kevin

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    29

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    Jan:

    I have two K-dates, s/ns 2059 and 2522, both refinished by the French, presumably at Oberndorf soon after WWII.

    Both are all matching except the magazines. Both are mixed Gothic and plain "S"s. Both have sharp long barrel bands with the rear sight set to the rear; both have a Gothic "S" on the front sight base. Both are "humped" frames. Both have standard O 37 proofs on the barrel extension, numbered barrels, and gauges "8,83" and "8,82" respectively. No Kreigsmarine marks.

    Both have the "indents", which I think were unintentional and really nothing more than fixture marks left when the barrel was screwed home. I suspect that whether these are present or not depends on minute differences in the dimensions of individual barrels and extensions, which affected how they fit in the barreling fixtures. Since most Ks do show the marks, and later guns do not, it seems probable that the fixtures were later modified to avoid this marring.

    2522 has an O 37 proof on the underlug of the barrel extension; 2059's is bare. Both guns have two distinct styles of number fonts on the various parts. I suspect that a few parts--notably the trigger on 2059 and the sideplate of 2522, though "S" marked, might originally have had a different number that was removed. I have no reason to imagine that this was done by a faker; I have owned them since they were first imported from France via the U.K. If it was done, it was either when Mauser made them or when the French reworked them.

    M

  8. #38
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    Dec 2003
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    , Antwerpen, Belgium.
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    Jan,
    #2043 was reported in my K-date survey. 2x Ö|37; Navy marked O.1987.
    I found a few errors in the acceptance stamps in my listing:
    #2003 has Ö|37-S|91 (strange as it may be - I have pictures of that pistol)
    #2086 and #2140 reportedly have Ö|37-Ö|37 instead of Ö|37-B|90.
    I have updated my listing.
    Joop van de Kant, co - author of:
    "The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946"
    Analysis of a Million Luger Pistols

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    AK, USA.
    Posts
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    Joop
    Thanks for the update. Table changed.
    Jan
    Jan C Still
    Site Owner - Operator

  10. #40
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    Aug 2003
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    North of Spokane, WA
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    Subvariation 4, sn 882a, right proofs; B90 S91


    Ed

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