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Navy on Gunbroker

3K views 11 replies 8 participants last post by  Tim Hawkins 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Heinz, OK, start the ball rolling and tell what you see that makes it hinky and get the discussion going...

I don't like the conditions of sale already...
Must Go to FFL-
All Guns must be shipped to an FFL Dealer - no exceptions to this. Even if the gun is considered an antique it still must be shipped to an FFL dealer. Even if the gun is over 50 years or older we will not send to C&R license holder.
All firearms must go to an FFL dealer!!!

-Returns-
This is a consignment firearm and they are sold as-is with no returns. Look carefully and ask questions before bidding. All consignment sales are final.
 
#4 ·
Many years ago I participated in the C&R discussion list and offered an item for sale with the note, sold only to FFL-03, collectors only. All the participants were C&R FFL-03 holders so the point of the note was to point out the questionable judgement of sellers who restricted sales to FFL-01 holders. That is one of my pet peeves. Another is the seller who states the buyer must be an FFL or C&R. A C&R license is an FFL. There are several kinds of FFL's and a seller should understand that.

Some of that attitude may date to the brick-and-mortar days when retail and wholesale were very distinct and dealers were wholesale while collectors were retail customers. That concept faded long ago and the concept that dealers are a part of an exclusive club and that collectors are just ignorant customers outside that club doesn't make much sense. That is entirely speculation but is one possible explanation for this attitude.

Another possible explanation is that I have known some dealers to complain about the demanding nature of collectors to whom they sell. Those dealers are in the wrong business and may not belong in business of any kind. They tend to dislike customers and don't understand their customers' expectations and motivations. Again, this is entirely speculation.

If you are a "retail" business offering something for sale online and you restrict your potential customer base for no practical reason, you are a foolish business manager. You are violating a basic concept of business. That is not speculation.

The posting has a hostile tenor and the lack of a return policy is absolutely unacceptable. I won't give it a second look.

As far as the luger---it looks like a decent 1st altered P.04. The condition is not great but not unusual for one of these older navies. The grips look a bit better condition than the luger and I would want verification of the number on the back of both grip panels. The left grip looks damaged near the mag release button. There may be other details and points of concern but the conditions of sale, and the high starting price, eliminate this item from consideration.
 
#6 ·
I thought the C/Ms were odd, the cross is indistict. I also find the Gesichert with lower case letters on the pantographing odd for a WW marking. The WW number seems out of sequence for a 4000 a plus serial number. I think the gun looks like an old reblue.
Do not like the FFL only, and marking "no reserve" but having a 4200 minimum bid. Is that not a reserve?
 
#7 ·
Forgot to add, the barrel CM seems off and the serial number may be hand stamped, hard to tell in the photo. The CM on the toggle looks good. Poor photos on a 4200 gun are always suspicious. The toggle and barrel photos show what they can do with the camera.
But, as bad as I want one of these I am not an expert.
 
#9 ·
I don't see a thing scrubbed and restamped on the gun, meaning that there are no apparent previous numbers showing, and all machining lines look to be directionally correct. But I don't have micrometer in hand.

Serial fonts are the same on frame and barrel.

Now, as to the authenticity of C/M, I don't study them enough to make a call.
 
#10 ·
As Martin has said, 1906 Navy 1st Alt #4937a is correct, in fact I would call it 100% authentic (the pentagon crown/M inspection mark was introduced at #4000a aprox). The obvious down-side is the light pin-pricking over-all which might look better with some careful cleaning. Less obvious is the small chip in the left grip and the hair-line crack in the otherwise very nice non-matching mag.
Norm
 
#12 ·
Looking at Norm's great list, there are numerous other navies very close to this serial number with the "W.W." marking. Sadly, the rust freckling on the finish will discourage many potential buyers. Most fakers would use a donor gun with a better finish.
Being able to compare grip strap markings of guns with close serial numbers is another reason Norm's list is so valuable to us. Thank you, Norm!
Tim H.
 
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