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1899 Italian Contract Flatside Mauser C96 DATA

10K views 40 replies 10 participants last post by  skyalex 
#1 ·
This is my new to me , 1899 Italian Contract C96, as we all know contract have they owen numbers from 1-5000. I would like to ask all knowlegible collectors did any body count survivor guns? Again, we know all survivor Italian guns sold to China and after this probably most of theam came to America. How many still exsisting ? If this research not done, I am willing to start count this unique contract , please let me know.
my gun have trace of Chines acquiring
 

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#4 ·
In the Paul Mauser Archive I have all data about this contract including the timing of the shipping from Oberndorf to Italy.
Extensive data is available in the book written by Gerben van Vlimmeren and myself: Paul Mauser - His Life, Company, and Handgun Development 1838 - 1914

The contract was for 5003 pistols in total.

Should you be interested in getting data you can contact me here: mauser.archive@gmail.com

Best regards,
 
#5 ·
Thank you!, I understand we have all information about how many made , but how many still exist ! ? I spend some time this week in internet and I find only around 23 guns most of them refinished or mismatch only few in original conditions. I will start collect data, please help me !
 
#6 ·
Difficult to determine.

The Italians started cannibalizing guns to repair others when they ran out of spare parts. Others were lost at sea and an unknown quantity was destroyed.
 
#7 ·
This why, we need to figure out how many survivor still exsisting and condichions of them, from this two factors we can determing value of exsisting guns.Twenty years ago I start count Russian Tokarev TT33 in US and came ... not to many guns here. I can see result of this study price jump from $200-300 to $1500-4000 depends condichions and year.
Lets go !
 
#8 · (Edited)
#6 all matching in Italy
#47 mismatching , frame 47,recever 1948
#87 mismatching $4795
#114 all matching in Italy
#159 all matching sold in 2021 on PIA $4500
#187
#263
#403 was on sale Julia's
#453 with matching stock
#463
#659
#712 restore and refinish for sale on GB $6500
#713 all matching
#719 with matching stock, refinish, rear sight 50-500 , for sale on GunsInternational $4450
#727 all matching
#854
#1145 all matching with stock #2924
#1182 outline history of the Mauser military pistol - the Early Days
#1226
#1290
#1379 sold in 2016 by Collectors Firearms $3250
#1434 de-activated only top parts no frame, in Germany
#1534 refinish, sold in 2019 for $2950
#1575, small parts mismatching, Chinese bring back, stock#1675, de-activated, private collection in France
#1731
#1854 in Europe
#1892
#1901 all matching , Ohio Ordnance on GB 10/1/2021 for $ 3500
#2157 all matching , have Chinese character and #3970
#2347 unique example of a custom altered large ring 20 Shot sold in 2013 on RIA $10925
#2492.
#2509 all matching, located in Prague, Czech Republic
#2544 all matching, refinish
#2622
#2636
#2678
#2730 all matching, in 2011 sold by Pre98 $3550
#2879 all matching selling on Rock Island Auctions
#3064 mismatching in UK
#3336
#3447
#3530 re-bored to 9MM, refinish sold by GunAuction in 2012 for $801.01 in 2013 sold $1111.01 sold in 1/1/2020
#3550
#3602
#3827
#3879 with stock
#3881 all matching sold in 2013 for $5000
#3893 all matching sold in 2018 on RIA $3163
#3957 in 2014 sold by GunAuction $700
#3970
#4024 mismatching
#4163
#4196 mismatching ,receiver #2336,frame 4196,refinish, $3495
#4217 refinish
#4297 all matching
#4395
#4447
#4495 all matching in 2017 sold by Simpson
#4569 all matching, refinish
#4678
#4895 sold in 2017 by James D. Julia $
 
#10 ·
#6 all matching in Italy
#114 all matching in Italy
#453 with matching stock
#719 with matching stock, refinish,rear sight 50-500 , for sale on GunsInternational $4450
#727 all matching
#1182 http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/earlyproduction.htm
#1379 sold in 2016 by Collectors Firearms $3250
#1534 refinish, sold in 2019 for $2950
#2157 all matching , have Chinese character and #3970
#2336 mismatching ,recever #2336,frame 4196,refinish, $3495
#2544 all matching, refinish
#2730 all matching, in 2011 sold by Pre98 $3550
#2879 all matching selling on Rock Island Auctions
#3064 mismatching in UK
#3530 re-bored to 9MM, refinish sold by GunAuction in 2012 for $801.01 in 2013 sold $1111.01 sold in 1/1/2020
#3881 all matching sold in 2013 for $5000
#3957 in 2014 sold by GunAuction $700
#4297 all matching
#4895 sold in 2017 by James D. Julia $
Here are some more I know of:
#403, ?, ?, no stock, was on sale at Julia's
#1145, matching, ?, stock #2924
#1575, small parts mismatching, chinese bring back, stock#1675, de-activated, private collection in France
#3879, ?, ?, with stock
#4163, ?, ?, no stock
 
#9 ·
Gerben and Mauro wrote about the Italian contract in their book based on the Paul Mauser personal archival material.

The Italian specifications were somewhat unique, and thus parts for these pistols were also unique in some ways. When the Italians later wanted spare parts for their pistols, this was a relatively low priority at Mauser (special parts runs and adjustment of gauges, etc were required) so while Mauser addressed higher priority orders, the Italians waited. For quite a period of time there were no spare parts for the Italian Mauser flat side C96 pistols, so the Italian armorers started routinely swapping and fitting parts from donor pistols. This is why few of these survive with all matching parts.

As to how many survive? I think it's anyone's guess.
 
#16 ·
Hello Peter,

Which one is the 20-Shot? Serial number 2347 as a Flatside model or mixed in as an (early) milled panel?

I heard of one 20-Shot pistol being examined by the Italian Naval Commission Board, which is still 'hiding' in Italy.

Thanks,
Albert
 
#20 ·
The Flatside 20-Shots which were special order items were reported in a separate serial range between 1-95, unless one Flatside 20-Shot was pulled from this batch and delivered with the INC pistols as a gift to the Commissioner of the Italian Navy, which was often the practice with special orders.

Ciao,
Albert
 
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