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Ku DATA REQUEST

62K views 182 replies 46 participants last post by  vesuvio 
#1 · (Edited)
The purpose of this study is to try and learn more about the elusive KĂĽ pistol. Hopefully it will also be a place where members can report KĂĽ pistols that had not been previously reported.

Using Table 32.1 on page 560 of THE MAUSER PARABELLUM 1930-1946 as a guide one would expect certain standard properties and markings.

---- E/LA acceptance on R/H receiver and L/H of breechblock and barrel

---- The unnumbered parts normally are the hold open, inside of sideplate, rear toggle pin (receiver axle) and the end of the rear toggle link.

What I am searching for are variations from the "normal" if there is such a thing on Ku pistols.

DATA REQUESTED:

1- Serial number...please note if large numbers. Normal size is same as Ku stamp. See examples below for normal or large numbers
2- Chamber date and toggle markings
3- All barrel markings to include gauge
4- Grip information... wood or black plastic and any numbering. See examples below of normal and small numbers.
5- Magazine information...
6- Variations

SN------ CODE -----BARREL ----GRIPS ----MAG ----VARIATIONS


882Ku, BYF 41 B-90 barrrel

1033KĂĽ, BYF 41,S/42-W/154, wood 1033, unmarked black fxo mag

1177KĂĽ, BYF 41, Black grips, 2 matching alum bottom mags


1242 Ku, BYF 41....wood grips with matching SN

1261KĂĽ, BYF 41,S/42-W/154, wood with small 1261 & E/655 grips, blank S/42 SE63 mag

1317KĂĽ, BYF 41 wood with full SN both matching black fox mags.. see post 104

1327KĂĽ, BYF 41, black fxo mag (from Wehrmacht Awards Forum)

1357KĂĽ, BYF 41, S/42, W/154, wood, matching 1357+ fxo mag

1412 Ku, BYF 41

1421KĂĽ, BYF 41 Reblued.. (from Rock Island Auction catalog)


1431KĂĽ, 41/42, S/42-W/154, wood 1431, black fxo #1431, no stamps on entire toggle assembly except for 42 code

1438KĂĽ, BYF 41. Deactivated ...see post 92

1533KĂĽ, 41 BYF, S/42-W/154, wood 1533, 1 matching alum mag, plum colored extractor

1603KĂĽ, 41 BYF, S/42-W/154

1622KĂĽ, 41 BYF, S/42-W154, wood 1622, black fxo, no E/LA on breechblock

1630KĂĽ, 41 BYF, wood grips, in Germany, see post 115

1639Ku, 41 BYF, Both matching alum bottom mags. see post 168

1675KĂĽ, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood, black fxo mag 2640+

1699KĂĽ, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood 1699, matching alum mag

1702KĂĽ, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood not numbered. Matching "+" alum fxo mag ...see post #65

1768KĂĽ, 41 BYF, S/42-W154, wood 1768, black fxo, unnumbered breechblock

1834KĂĽ, 1938 BYF VOPO East German rework

1918KĂĽ, 1939 BYF, E/655 barrel, 42 before SN on left frame, wood grips with SN.

1956KĂĽ, 1939 BYF, E/655 barrel, wood grips with E/655 and SN, black mag not numbered.

2059KĂĽ, 41 BYF, wood grips and alum bottom FXO mag

2222KĂĽ, 41 BYF, E/655 proofs, numbered wood grips and numbered black bottom mag.

2431KĂĽ, 41 BYF, See post #127

2460KĂĽ, 41 BYF, wood grips, East German Rework See post #71

2520KĂĽ, 41 BYF. E/655, Type 1 black grips, black bottom mag

2653Ku, 41 BYF. Vopo rework.. see post #175 for details

2678KĂĽ, 41 BYF, Both matching black bottom mags

2580 Ku, 41/42 , see posts 130 & 132

2790KĂĽ, 41 BYF, E/135, wood 2790, black fxo, breechblock not numbered

2800Ku, 41/42, see post 170

2866KĂĽ, 41/42, E/655, wood 2866, matching black fxo, sideplate 42 coded

3050 KĂĽ, 41/42, See post #108 for pictures and details

3073 Ku, 41/42, see post #78 for pictures. Black grips & MATCHING + MAG..

5148Ku, 41 BYF, E/655 , wood grips with 48 & E/655... see post 159

KĂĽ 1465, 41 BYF, HK type wood grips not numbered. No proofs on breechblock

KĂĽ 3128, 41/42, E/655, wood 3128, black fxo, coupling link blued

KĂĽ 3153, 41/42, wood 3153, 42 code sideplate and safety.. See post 85

KĂĽ 3171, 41/42, E/655, wood grips, black fxo... See post #71

KĂĽ 3220, 41/42, 42 sideplate, 3220 wood grips with E/655, black fox

KĂĽ 3301, 41/42, E/655, wood 3301, black fxo

KĂĽ 3350, 41 BYF, Wood 50. See posts #117 & 118

KĂĽ 3397, 41/42, Wood 97, See post 123


KĂĽ 3418, 41/42, wood 3418 and E/655, black fox, Brit proofs, see post 95

KĂĽ 3426, 41/42, E/655, wood 3426, no breechblock proof, 2 matching alum mags..See post #76

KĂĽ 3469, 41/42, E/655, wood 3469 and E/655, black
fxo

KĂĽ 3549, 41 BYF, E/655, wood 3549, black fxo

KĂĽ 3599, 41 BYF, E/655, wood 3599, black fxo


KĂĽ 3634, 41/42, Appears to perhaps have a renumbered receiver... See post #106 for details

KĂĽ 3642, 41/42, matching numbered black fox

Ku 3653, 41 BYF, See post 142

KĂĽ 3657,
41 BYF, numbered black fxo, safety lever strawed and receiver overstamped

KĂĽ 3720, 41 BYF, reworked and stayed in service after the war. See post #63

Ku 3765, 41 BYF

KĂĽ 3834, 41 DWM, HK coarse brown grips, 42 replacement sideplate see Post #89

Ku¨4258, 41 BYF, E/655, wood grips, Listed in TRL on page 101 and TMP on page 558. See post #111
Ku 4312 41 BYF.. see post 137

Ku 4318 41 BYF E/655 numbered wood grips

KĂĽ 4319, 41 BYF, E/655, matching 42 replacement sideplate, numbered wood grips,black fxo mag,sear bar 1965

KĂĽ 4363, 41/42, E/655, 42 replacement sideplate, wood grips

KĂĽ 4425, 41/42, matching numbered black fxo mag

Ku 4453, 41/42, see post 137


PISTOLS PERHAPS WITH SOME CONNECTION ???

6573 ... No KĂĽ but E/LA accepted. See post 36
6766 KĂĽ .... 42/42 with no E/LA acceptance... See posts 56 & 58
9932 ... DWM 1918/1920 . No KĂĽ but with E/LA acceptance on barrel... See post 68
 
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#2 ·
Dave ,
byf 41 Serial # 1177ku / luftwaffe Proof / 2 matching mags 95% Gun
I am going from memory on this Luger , as I looked at it some time back . I had hopes of buying it , but Vet has passed and relative will not sell it .

Ron
 
#9 ·
Ron... Thanks for the additional information. I see this gun is listed in THE MAUSER PARABELLUM and has black plastic grips. Pity that you were not able to give it a good new home. This pistol would sure shed some light on some unanswered questions.

List updated...
 
#13 ·
Kelly... Thanks for the NEW Ku number. What is the date and toggle code??? Any chance you could post pictures of the bottom of the mag ?? Is the SN on the L/H side of the receiver larger than the number on the front of the frame. This is good stuff and really is what this study is all about..... I appreciate you joining in....
 
#14 ·
Dave,
s/n Ku 4425, large numbers
Chanber: 41 and 42
Rear toggle has small 42
Left barrel has LZA proof
Rt frame has LZA proof only
Grips are walnut and each numbered "Ku 4425 "
Mag: FXO E/37, P 08 and pasltic bottom engraved 4425 over +
Regards, Jerry
 
#17 ·
Thanks to member Snipershot 1944 (David Chandler) I have added 1533Ku to the list. It comes with a alum numbered mag that is really interesting to this study as well as the one on Black Bottom Mags.

It looks to me that this is numbered in exactly the same way that the "heat stamped" black plastic Ku mags are numbered and I wonder if the same equipment may have been used to do both types of mag bottoms.

Do not know if the melting temps of the alum and black plastic mag bottoms are close enough and would sure appreciate any comments from anybody who might know.

Am posting a excellent picture that David was kind enough to send below and will attempt to do a comparison over on the Black Mag Bottom study...
 
#19 ·
Ron... Is it possible that business end of the pantograph machine could have been either for heat stamping or cutting ?? I see a lot of similarties in the size and placement of 1533+ numbers and "+" and many of the black plastic examples submitted.
 
#21 ·
Jim... It sure does help... new number and early production based on reported pistols. Any chance of a picture of the L/H side showing the full serial number and Ku ? Are the numbers and the "K" about the same size ???
The other thing you might check is they may be a barrel acceptance stamp other than the S/42 and it will be found on the L/H side of the barrel just above the E/LA stamp.

Thanks again.....
 
#22 ·
Dave, the serial number on the left side is larger then the Ku. I did find another proof very faint on the barrel with my 10 power loop. it is
a opened boxed W followed by a open boxed 154. very much like a G date proof. I had no idea it was there. I must work on my
camera to take a picture for you.

Jim
 
#25 · (Edited)
I added my KU luger to the 41byf list some time back, but I thought I'd add some more info details and photos for this sticky. 1261KU is, in my opinion, original finish throughout and has what I interperate as the large serial numbers. It has the typical couple of Mauser armorer's replacement parts, one of which is an un-serialed, un-bore gauged G-date W/154 S/42 marked barrel, which also has the LZA on the left side. In addition to the barrel, there is a LZA stamp alone on the right side of the receiver with no accompanying eagles, and a LZA on the left side of the breechblock. The chamber is dated 41, the middle link is byf and serialed, and the rear link is un-numbered. Inside of sideplate unmarked, toggle link pin un-numbered, hold-open 42 code marked. There are RW stamps under the rear link and left rear receiver rail. The safety lever is serialed to the gun on the top edge side, but on the bottom displays the Mauser 42 replacement code. The rest of the gun is all matching except for a S/42 replacement mag. Under the chamber are inspector code stamps as follows: capitol 'A', a lower case 'a', a small number 7, and a partial strike that may be an 'O'. (Interestingly, the A, 7 and O are all listed by Randall Gibson on page 134 of his Krieghoff luger book as being common to KU lugers.) The grips are both serialed 1261 and both bear E/655 stamps. There is a clear 'V' stamp on the right grip, and a faint partial stamp that may or may not be a V on the left grip. There is a machining flaw, kind of a small warp look, on the left side of the lower frame flat area directly below where the safety protrudes up to the sear. I'd assume that during normal luger production, a machining variance like this would get an instant inspector rejection. However, sometime back I noticed that another Forum member posted photos of his 1048KU luger, a nearby serialed gun with a similar flaw in the same spot. Additional photos in posts below.

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