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Ku DATA REQUEST

62K views 182 replies 46 participants last post by  vesuvio 
#1 · (Edited)
The purpose of this study is to try and learn more about the elusive Kü pistol. Hopefully it will also be a place where members can report Kü pistols that had not been previously reported.

Using Table 32.1 on page 560 of THE MAUSER PARABELLUM 1930-1946 as a guide one would expect certain standard properties and markings.

---- E/LA acceptance on R/H receiver and L/H of breechblock and barrel

---- The unnumbered parts normally are the hold open, inside of sideplate, rear toggle pin (receiver axle) and the end of the rear toggle link.

What I am searching for are variations from the "normal" if there is such a thing on Ku pistols.

DATA REQUESTED:

1- Serial number...please note if large numbers. Normal size is same as Ku stamp. See examples below for normal or large numbers
2- Chamber date and toggle markings
3- All barrel markings to include gauge
4- Grip information... wood or black plastic and any numbering. See examples below of normal and small numbers.
5- Magazine information...
6- Variations

SN------ CODE -----BARREL ----GRIPS ----MAG ----VARIATIONS


882Ku, BYF 41 B-90 barrrel

1033Kü, BYF 41,S/42-W/154, wood 1033, unmarked black fxo mag

1177Kü, BYF 41, Black grips, 2 matching alum bottom mags


1242 Ku, BYF 41....wood grips with matching SN

1261Kü, BYF 41,S/42-W/154, wood with small 1261 & E/655 grips, blank S/42 SE63 mag

1317Kü, BYF 41 wood with full SN both matching black fox mags.. see post 104

1327Kü, BYF 41, black fxo mag (from Wehrmacht Awards Forum)

1357Kü, BYF 41, S/42, W/154, wood, matching 1357+ fxo mag

1412 Ku, BYF 41

1421Kü, BYF 41 Reblued.. (from Rock Island Auction catalog)


1431Kü, 41/42, S/42-W/154, wood 1431, black fxo #1431, no stamps on entire toggle assembly except for 42 code

1438Kü, BYF 41. Deactivated ...see post 92

1533Kü, 41 BYF, S/42-W/154, wood 1533, 1 matching alum mag, plum colored extractor

1603Kü, 41 BYF, S/42-W/154

1622Kü, 41 BYF, S/42-W154, wood 1622, black fxo, no E/LA on breechblock

1630Kü, 41 BYF, wood grips, in Germany, see post 115

1639Ku, 41 BYF, Both matching alum bottom mags. see post 168

1675Kü, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood, black fxo mag 2640+

1699Kü, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood 1699, matching alum mag

1702Kü, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood not numbered. Matching "+" alum fxo mag ...see post #65

1768Kü, 41 BYF, S/42-W154, wood 1768, black fxo, unnumbered breechblock

1834Kü, 1938 BYF VOPO East German rework

1918Kü, 1939 BYF, E/655 barrel, 42 before SN on left frame, wood grips with SN.

1956Kü, 1939 BYF, E/655 barrel, wood grips with E/655 and SN, black mag not numbered.

2059Kü, 41 BYF, wood grips and alum bottom FXO mag

2222Kü, 41 BYF, E/655 proofs, numbered wood grips and numbered black bottom mag.

2431Kü, 41 BYF, See post #127

2460Kü, 41 BYF, wood grips, East German Rework See post #71

2520Kü, 41 BYF. E/655, Type 1 black grips, black bottom mag

2653Ku, 41 BYF. Vopo rework.. see post #175 for details

2678Kü, 41 BYF, Both matching black bottom mags

2580 Ku, 41/42 , see posts 130 & 132

2790Kü, 41 BYF, E/135, wood 2790, black fxo, breechblock not numbered

2800Ku, 41/42, see post 170

2866Kü, 41/42, E/655, wood 2866, matching black fxo, sideplate 42 coded

3050 Kü, 41/42, See post #108 for pictures and details

3073 Ku, 41/42, see post #78 for pictures. Black grips & MATCHING + MAG..

5148Ku, 41 BYF, E/655 , wood grips with 48 & E/655... see post 159

Kü 1465, 41 BYF, HK type wood grips not numbered. No proofs on breechblock

Kü 3128, 41/42, E/655, wood 3128, black fxo, coupling link blued

Kü 3153, 41/42, wood 3153, 42 code sideplate and safety.. See post 85

Kü 3171, 41/42, E/655, wood grips, black fxo... See post #71

Kü 3220, 41/42, 42 sideplate, 3220 wood grips with E/655, black fox

3301, 41/42, E/655, wood 3301, black fxo

Kü 3350, 41 BYF, Wood 50. See posts #117 & 118

Kü 3397, 41/42, Wood 97, See post 123


Kü 3418, 41/42, wood 3418 and E/655, black fox, Brit proofs, see post 95

Kü 3426, 41/42, E/655, wood 3426, no breechblock proof, 2 matching alum mags..See post #76

Kü 3469, 41/42, E/655, wood 3469 and E/655, black
fxo

Kü 3549, 41 BYF, E/655, wood 3549, black fxo

Kü 3599, 41 BYF, E/655, wood 3599, black fxo


Kü 3634, 41/42, Appears to perhaps have a renumbered receiver... See post #106 for details

3642, 41/42, matching numbered black fox

Ku 3653, 41 BYF, See post 142

Kü 3657,
41 BYF, numbered black fxo, safety lever strawed and receiver overstamped

3720, 41 BYF, reworked and stayed in service after the war. See post #63

Ku 3765, 41 BYF

Kü 3834, 41 DWM, HK coarse brown grips, 42 replacement sideplate see Post #89

Ku¨4258, 41 BYF, E/655, wood grips, Listed in TRL on page 101 and TMP on page 558. See post #111
Ku 4312 41 BYF.. see post 137

Ku 4318 41 BYF E/655 numbered wood grips

Kü 4319, 41 BYF, E/655, matching 42 replacement sideplate, numbered wood grips,black fxo mag,sear bar 1965

Kü 4363, 41/42, E/655, 42 replacement sideplate, wood grips

4425, 41/42, matching numbered black fxo mag

Ku 4453, 41/42, see post 137


PISTOLS PERHAPS WITH SOME CONNECTION ???

6573 ... No Kü but E/LA accepted. See post 36
6766 Kü .... 42/42 with no E/LA acceptance... See posts 56 & 58
9932 ... DWM 1918/1920 . No Kü but with E/LA acceptance on barrel... See post 68
 
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#156 ·
Ku luger: Front frame: 5148 witness mark lines up. Left receiver: 5148Ku. Right receiver: LAZ only. same size font as front of frame. Magazine: type 4 army black plastic bottom. LAZ on plastic bottom, no serial number on plastic. no markings at all on metal part of magazine. Left barrel: LAZ and E/655. Barrel bottom: 5148, 8.82. Chamber: 41.
Toggle: byf. Left grip: wood, 48, 655 LAZ. Right grip: wood, 48, 655, upside down V.
 
#158 ·
Hello
1864 KU, 41 BYF
All small parts marked 64
Black grips. LA/Eagle proof.
Wooden bottomed mag marked “5349”

I am new to the world of collecting these and know very little about KU Lugers. This board has been really helpful. Can anyone point me in the right direction to start learning more about these pistols?
 
#159 ·
Hello and welcome to the forum. Obviously the best place to start is the search function on this forum.
If you are looking for printed material;
The Krieghoff Parabellum by Randall Gibson 1980 Pages 129-138
The Mauser Parabellun 1930-1946 by Don Hallock/Joop van de Kant 2010 Pages555-562
The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols by Joachim Gortz/Geoffrey Sturgess information is dispersed among the three volumes.
How about posting pictures of your KU?
William
 
#172 · (Edited)
Hi Dave!
Please correct the given datas from #2460Kü (post 69);
the given Infos from "pisto" are not correct in all details.

I am the new owner of this Luger, bought out of the collection from Joop van de Kant within the 72. auction from Hermann historica, munich 2016.

The weapon has matching numbers, the magazine E/655 without number but with the suffix "x" (steel body magazine).
#2460Kü is marked with the (eastern) "X", original barrel. Condition I.

Please have a look on the 72. auction, LOS-number 252 (the auction should be still visible in the internet).
There you can find a detailed description and detailed pictures...

#2460Kü came along with an original Holster marked with "gut" 1942, WaA 389 or 369.
Inside the flap the original take-down with WaA 655 is contained.

Best regards from Germany,

Tom

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Here is the written description from Hermann historica:

Description of the lot 252

Pistole 08, Mauser, Code "41 - byf", mit Tasche, Luftwaffe
Kal. 9 mm Para, Nr. 2460 Kü. Nummerngleich, Schlagbolzen ohne Nummer. Lauf schwach matt. Hülsenkopf gemarkt "41", Vordergelenk "byf". Lauf ohne Nummer mit schwacher Abnahme Adler/655. Links an Lauf und Kammer und rechts am Gabelstück Luftwaffenabnahme LW-Adler/A. Nachbrüniert. Dunkle Nussholzgriffschalen ohne Nummer. Dünn brüniertes Falzmagazin mit Aluboden ohne Nummer, Suffix "x" und Abnahme Adler/655. Seltene Sammlerwaffe. Der Grund für die Zusatzbezeichnung "Kü" vor oder nach der Seriennummer ist nicht sicher bekannt und gibt Anlass für Spekulationen. Dazu eine getragene, schwarze Rindsledertasche, Herstellercode "gut 1942", Abnahme Adler/WaA359 (Walter Schürmann & Co., Lederwarenfabrik, Bielefeld). Die rötlichen Nähte und Zugriemen in Ordnung. Vgl. Hallock/van de Kant, The Mauser Parabellum 1930 - 1946, S. 555 - 562, wo obige Waffe bebildert und kurz beschrieben ist. Erlaubnispflichtig

Zustand: I


A Pistol 08, Mauser, code "41 - byf", with holster, Luftwaffe
Cal. 9 mm Parabellum, no. 2460 Kü. Matching numbers, numberless firing pin. Lightly matt bore. Chamber marked "41", front toggle link stamped "byf". Numberless barrel with weak acceptance mark eagle/655. On left side of barrel and bolt as well as on the right of fork Luftwaffe acceptance mark LW-eagle/A. Refinished. Dark walnut grip panels, no numbers. Thinly blued sheet metal magazine without number, suffix "x" and acceptance eagle/655. A rare collector's weapon. The reason for the additional marking "Kü" in front or after the serial number is not surely known and cause for speculations. Comes with worn, black cowhide holster, maker's code "gut 1942", acceptance eagle/WaA359 (Walter Schürmann & Co., Lederwarenfabrik, Bielefeld). Reddish stitches and pull strap in good order. Cf. Hallock/van de Kant, The Mauser Parabellum 1930 - 1946, p. 555 - 562 where the above weapon is illustrated and shortly described. Erlaubnispflichtig

Condition: I
 
#174 ·
Dave, you are rigth...
It´s obviously only a different understanding from "rework"...
In my point of view an eastern rework is comparible with a GDR-rework buildt up from several (mixed) parts, mismatched but a fantastic shooter and - for sure - a wide field of own/individuel collectibles for its own...
#2460Kü is just reblued and has the post-war marking eastern "X", matching numbers (magazine has no number but its a steel body magazine from another timeframe).

After I mediated on this different understanding once again yesterday evening I came to the realization that your decription is absolutely okay...

Best regards from Germany,

Tom
 
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