Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner

1908 DWM Bulgarian contract Luger census

154K views 497 replies 47 participants last post by  nag 
#1 · (Edited)
1908 DWM Bulgarian contract Luger census

Since purchasing one of these pistols (#993C) late in 2013, I have been tracking how many remain in factory or substantially close to factory form as well as those "sanitized" by removing Bulgarian markings prior to import.

Conventional wisdom is that there was an initial order of 10,000 guns, numbered 01-5000 and 01-5000C, but that almost all of them were used hard over the decades (in both Balkan wars just prior to WWI, and then again in WWI and WWII). No legitimate "C" suffix gun numbered higher than 1339C has been found, casting some doubt on the number in the original contract. Many were undoubtedly lost or rendered unserviceable in battle. In addition, many were in such bad shape after WWII that they were broken up and used for parts in the 1960s. It's pretty common to find a "shooter" Luger with one or more recognizable Bulgarian contract parts (frame, receiver, extractor, etc.).

An original DWM 1908 Bulgarian contract P.08 Luger has five features not found on any of the dozens of other Luger variations -

1) A lanyard loop at the bottom of the grip frame
2) The DWM logo stamped over the chamber rather than on the toggle
3) The simplified Bulgarian coat of arms on top of the front toggle
4) A lion acceptance proof on the right side of the receiver
5) The Bulgarian word ПЪЛЕНЪ for "Loaded" on the extractor and ОГЪНЪ for "Fire" at the lower safety position in Cyrillic characters. The 1900 and 1906 Bulgarian contract guns have ОГЪНЪ at the upper safety position and the 1906 has ПЪЛЕНЪ on the extractor.

Internet search engines, firearms forums and books have yielded to date the list below of a total of 135 pistols that appear to be completely or largely intact (including Bulgarian markings), with only about 64 that appear to be all/almost all original parts and finish (not including magazines). Only three guns (all C suffixed) appear to be paired with their correctly marked, matching magazine. An additional 62 sanitized guns, frames, magazines or other bits and pieces have been cataloged below in a separate list. That isn't many guns (~ 3.5%) when compared to the ~6,500 shipped. I'm sure there are more to be found.

Edit 12/21/18 - the list has become too big to maintain in the HTML editor, so I have converted it to a .pdf file which is attached to this post. I also added 8 new guns - 5 to the main list and 3 to the pieces/parts list below the main list.

To Be Added to the .pdf file since last edit -

#7085 - invalid serial - not sure what to do with this one - 1908 DWM Bulgarian contract Luger census - 120 guns and...
 

Attachments

See less See more
#83 · (Edited)
#84 ·
#94 ·
That is the correct location for the last two digits, but a light or hard to see impression is not uncommon for these guns (or maybe it would better to attribute it to the photography). Here is an example of one of the better pictures I have of that spot, from #644C.

These auction sites really give you very little to go on from the pictures as a rule. The question is... is it intentional or not? It's hard to explain really, because good pictures would give bidders more confidence to bid higher... assuming the guns were worthy.

 
#96 ·
Doug -

Thanks very much, I would love to see some pictures if you would like to share them. It seems like there's something to learn from every gun no matter what shape it's in. As has been commented before, these guns on average likely saw more military use than any other Luger.
 
#97 ·
Added two more guns to the big list at the top of the thread today -
1) #234C promoted from "parts" list, since it's mostly complete
2) #693, added by deepdarkwoodsman in post #95

Still only 41 complete original guns, let's find some more!
 
#98 · (Edited)
Another 1908 Bulgarian has finally surfaced, serial #378 - on Gunbroker. This one appears to be refinished, and there's no visible sign of the lion proof on the right side of the receiver. No mention of Cyrillic writing on the extractor. The grips don't appear to have ever had any checkering... homemade?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=490137533
 
#99 ·
#100 ·
Found #564 at a Cabella's yesterday. Didn't buy because of $5000.00 price tag. Had a correct holster and mag pouch with it, as well as cleaning rod and two mags. Mag numbers did not match gun. Mags were stated as correct. No take down tool. Came with a letter from Simpson LTD which stated it was all original and had not been refinished. Simpson did not sell this gun, previous owner had them authenticate it. Letter also went on to say that it was the best one they have seen as to date. Letter was dated 2012.The letter stated it was a 1908 but denoted it as a M1911. The condition of this luger was museum quality. Straw was excellent, blue had very little wear, grips had some signs of use. All numbers match, no number on the firing pin, DWM on chamber, lion crest on toggle. Not sure about the caliber. Did not look at the bore. Holster and mag pouch were in very good condition. Cleaning rod was brass with a blue black colored T- shaped knob top, hard to describe. Didn't get any pics as I was not interested in it at $5000.
 
#101 ·
Jim -

Thanks very much for the report. Which Cabela's store? i would like to call them as I wasn't able to find it in their Gun Library.
 
#120 ·
??? It sold last night..???? yet you found out about about it today????
 
#102 ·
Here are some pictures that they emailed me. I am waiting on the pictures for the accessories. I have it on hold...
I wonder what you, fellows, think about the finish on this gun. It looked fine to me judging by the pictures.I also was not sure about the $5000 valuation..Any comments are welcome.
 
#103 ·
Mouser -

Thanks for the preliminary pics, which confirm that all the unique features of this Luger appear to be intact. The bluing appears to be in very nice condition, almost too nice given the conditions to which these guns were subjected. In your place, I would look very carefully for signs of pitting under the bluing. I do see what appears to be haloing around the barrel serial #, which is good. I would love to see the serial on the magazine, which should be in large numerals and run lengthwise with the gun. The lanyard loop appears original (correct shape).

As to valuation, $5k seems steep but these are very rare in high condition and prices for them have increased recently. #197C sold out of Legacy for almost $8k with changed out grips and missing the C on the barrel (not applicable to #564). Nice looking gun, I would love to examine in person. In any case you should get a non-firing examination with return option.
 
#104 ·
Thank you!
Here are some pics of the accessories and the Simpson letter.
The serial on one of the mags (480) looks goofy to me.
I don't believe the numbering is original...
The other one looks perfect.
Are these correct holster and the mag pouch for the gun?
I have never seen this pattern before - it looks commercial to me...
Thanks!
 
#105 ·
Hello Val,

That M1908 Bulgarian appears to be original to me according to the images. You should not hesitate buying it since finding such a contract Bulgarian Luger in that condition is very difficult. I think the price is fair for a M1908 Bulgarian contract in that excellent condition whether or not the magazine is matching.

Someday, it would pair great with its Bulgarian partner with the X-rifles on the chamber whenever you would find one in the same condition. ;)

Good luck,
Albert
 
#106 ·
Val -

The numbering style on the mags is indeed correct, although 480 looks to be chewed up a bit. If original finish, I think the price for the rig is at least in the ballpark with the two mags, which are also hard to find. I haven't studied the holsters and tools enough to be able to say if they are correct.

i will be adding this one to the list shortly.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top