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Thread: Clement 1903 serial number list

  1. #1
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    Default Clement 1903 serial number list

    Gentlemen, I and Bob (Humble Pie) have decided to create here for you a list of serial numbers Clement 1903 pistols.

    In this list is also an early type of caliber 7.65 will be included.

    The participation of other members of the forum is welcome.

    You can also give advice to for the name of headers.



    Types

    1 332в.jpg

    2 1238a.jpg

    3 3836.jpg


    Type Grips

    1 Gr2.jpgGr2a.jpg

    2 Gr1.jpgGr1a.jpg

    3 Gr3.jpgGr3a.jpg

    Be patient, this work will take some time.



    Sn Type cal. Grips Siamese marking
    location
    Retailer markings French markings on the upper receiver heel-mounted magazine release Finish Details "JB"
    mark
    within of a circle left on the frame
    "B"
    mark
    within of a square left on the frame
    "JH" mark on the trigger guard "NT" mark on the trigger guard "M" mark on the trigger guard
    143 1 7.65 X S.G.D.G. X
    151 2
    332 1 7.65 2 X S.G.D.G. X
    382 2 5 2 X S.G.D.G. X
    635 2 5 wood X S.G.D.G. X trigger-blue. safety lever-fire blue.
    1140 2 5 wood X S.G.D.G. X trigger, safety lever- fire blue.
    1238 2 5 1 X S.G.D.G. X trigger-white. safety lever- fire blue.
    1331 2 5 1 X S.G.D.G. trigger-white.safety lever-fire blue.
    1372 2 5 1 X S.G.D.G. trigger-white.safety lever-fire blue.
    1572 2 5 1 X S.G.D.G. trigger-white.safety lever-fire blue. JH on the right side
    1677 3 5 2 not marked trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue.
    1848 3 5 1 not marked trigger-white. safety lever-blued. JH on the right side
    2154 3 5 1 X S.G.D.G. trigger-white. safety lever-blued. JH on the right side
    2199 3 5 X S.G.D.G. trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue.
    2306 3 5 1 X S.G.D.G. trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue.
    2389
    2428 3 5 1 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue. JH on the right side
    2455 3 5 1 JH on the right side
    2510 3 5 1 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue.
    2945 3 5 2 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue. JH on the right side
    3229 3 5 2
    3265 3 5 2
    3501 3 5 no JH
    on the left side
    3604 3 5 2 refinished M
    on the left side
    3624 3 5 2 all controls blued
    3686
    3836 3 5 2 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue.
    3921 3 5 2 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue. JH on the right side
    3937 3 5 L2R1
    4019 3 5 2 JH on the right side
    4225 3 5 2 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue.
    4256 3 5 2
    4266 3 5 2 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue. M
    on the left side
    4269 3 5 wood All rusty
    4287 3 5 wood
    4337
    4379 3 5 2 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue.
    4464 3 5 2 B M
    on the left side
    4616 3 5 2 trigger-white. safety lever-fire blue.
    4759 5 B
    4771 3 5 2 ?
    4979 3 5 2 B JH on the right side NT
    on the left side
    5048 3 5 2 ?
    5084 3 5 1 ?
    5375 3 5 2 ?
    5377 3 5 2 ?
    5533 3 5 Nacre Gold inlaid
    5539 3 5 2 B
    5582 3 5 wood ? NT
    on the left side
    6251 3 5 1 all controls blued B
    6272 3 5 wood B NT
    on the left side
    6422 3 5 2 ?
    6424 3 5 white
    bone
    ?
    6450 3 5 2 B
    6471 3 5 2 all controls blued ?
    6502 3 5 3 B
    6522 3 5 3 all controls blued B M
    on the left side
    6861 3 5 2 B
    6913 3 5 wood all controls blued ?
    7104 3 5 3 all controls blued ?
    7199 3 5 3 all controls blued B
    7527 3 5 wood B
    7600 3 5 2 * backstrap all controls blued no NT
    on the left side
    7606 3 5 wood all controls blued B
    7630
    7646 3 5 2 all controls blued B NT
    on the left side
    7664 3 5 wood * backstrap Manufacture D'Armes Saint Etienne all controls blued B
    7667 3 5 2 * frontstrap Manufacture D'Armes Saint Etienne all controls blued B
    7669 3 5 1 Manufacture D'Armes Saint Etienne all controls blued B NT
    on the right side
    7686 3 5 2 * frontstrap Manufacture D'Armes Saint Etienne all controls blued
    7692 3 5 2 * frontstrap Manufacture D'Armes Saint Etienne all controls blued B
    7712 3 5 wood all controls blued B
    7733 3 5 2 all controls blued B
    7853 3 5 2 all controls blued B
    7915 3 5 no all controls blued
    7987
    8080 3 5 3 * backstrap Manufacture D'Armes Saint Etienne all controls blued B
    8099 3 5 1 all controls blued B
    8103 3 5 2 all controls blued B
    8141 3 5 2 all controls blued NT
    on the left side
    8144 3 5 2 all controls blued NT
    on the left side
    8150 3 5 2 * frontstrap all controls blued NT
    on the left side
    8151 3 5 2 * frontstrap all controls blued NT
    on the left side
    8153 3 5 2 * frontstrap Manufacture D'Armes Saint Etienne all controls blued B
    8156 3 5 2 all controls blued JB NT
    on the right side
    8166 3 5 3 all controls blued
    3 5 2 JB
    8276 3 5 3 ?
    8334 3 5 2 all controls blued ? ?
    8404 3 5 2 all controls blued JB NT
    on the right side
    8466 3 5 1 refinished ?
    8766 3 5 2 * frontstrap all controls blued JB
    8776 3 5 2 all controls blued ?
    8831 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB
    8982 3 6.35 from another gun all controls blued JB
    9178 3 6.35 wood all controls blued JB NT
    on the left side
    9191 3 6.35 3 all controls blued JB
    9228 3 6.35 wood all controls blued ?
    9307 3 6.35 no all controls blued ?
    9415 3 6.35 plexiglas all controls blued JB
    9603 3 6.35 wood all controls blued JB
    9626 3 6.35 3 all controls blued ?
    9749 3 6.35 2 refinished ?
    9828 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB
    9920 3 6.35 2 ?
    9945
    9967 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB NT
    on the left side
    9981 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB
    10009 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB NT
    on the left side
    10061 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB NT
    on the left side
    10075 3 6.35 2 ?
    10148 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB NT
    on the left side
    10150 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB NT
    on the left side
    10162 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB
    10176 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB
    10250 3 6.35 wood ?
    10259 3 6.35 3 all controls blued JB
    10282 3 6.35 3 all controls blued JB
    10288 3 6.35 2 all controls blued JB
    10336 3 6.35 no all controls blued JB
    10391
    10632 3 6.35 3 all controls blued JB
    10715 3 6.35 3 all controls blued JB
    10979
    11125 3 6.35 2 Emil Eggerth Pisek no markings all controls blued JB
    11126 3 6.35 3 Emil Eggerth Pisek no markings all controls blued JB
    11134 3 6.35 3 ?
    Last edited by VAC; 07-02-2020 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #2
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    Vaclav, you likely aren't looking for any input until you're done with this table, but I just wanted to point out that the transition from 5mm to 6.35mm occurred in the late 8,000's (no. 8831 is the earliest 6.35mm I'm personally aware of without consulting my data). You probably didn't mean to fill the "Caliber" column with 5's all the way to the end (?)
    Regards,
    Bob

  3. #3
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    Hello Bob ,
    I heard that in Clement 1903 had been 6.35 caliber but do not had no opportunity to to know which the serial number. After serial number 8831 they are no longer returned to the caliber of 5 mm?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAC View Post
    Hello Bob ,
    I heard that in Clement 1903 had been 6.35 caliber but do not had no opportunity to to know which the serial number. After serial number 8831 they are no longer returned to the caliber of 5 mm?
    No overlap between the 5mm and 6.35mm that I've observed. I don't know precisely where the transition occurred, but as I said, no. 8831 is the lowest numbered 6.35mm I know of. I've never heard of one of the Siamese pistols chambered in 6.35mm - only 5mm - so if you have no. 8766 listed as being Siamese-marked, I'd venture to guess that we have the caliber transition pinpointed to about 100 numbers or fewer.

    I have a lot of data to contribute to this project. First, a couple things I'd like to point out:

    1) I'm confused by the grip style you designate as "2". Across many observed 1903 pistols, I've only ever noted two basic types: vertical C's (common) and horizontal C's (rare). Typically the horiztonal C grips are seen on the very late 6.35mm guns, though I've seen exceptions (hard to know if grips were ever swapped, too, since they are interchangeable throughout production as far as I'm aware). Of course it's not just the orientation of the C's that is different; there are differences as well in the scrollwork around the borders, with the horizontal C grips being a lot more ornate.

    What exactly is the distinction between your types "1" and "2" and how many type 2 grips have you seen? Are you sure this is a useful distinction? I respectfully suggest distinguishing only between the two main types I describe above.

    2) Also I'd recommend using the simple terms "backstrap" and "frontstrap" to identify the location of the Siamese marking. This leaves no room for confusion.

    I'm hoping you plan on expanding the table to reflect the following changes and details of the Clement 1903. In addition to the features you have already included, I have noted the following:

    - Very early guns have a heel-mounted magazine release. Soon after production began, the mag release was moved to the backstrap, where it remained for the rest of production. Change occurred roughly at serial 1300 (latest pistol observed with heel-mounted release is no. 1238; earliest with backstrap release is no. 1331).

    - Early guns have a French legend reading: "Fabrique D'Armes C. Clement Liege S. G. D. G.", soon changed to the English legend "Automatic Pistol Clement's Patent". Change occurred about serial no. 2500.

    - For roughly the first half of production, pistols had triggers that were "in the white". They also had fire blued safety levers, mag releases and screws. At roughly serial no. 5000, all those features - trigger, safety lever, mag release and screws - were blued with the same finish as the rest of the gun. It should be noted that the breechblock was left "in the white" throughout production, and the extractor (screwed to the side of the breechblock and visible through the ejection port) was fire blued throughout production.

    Give me some time and I'll be able to add a great deal of serial number and other info to this thread. I've been studying Clements for a long time now.
    Last edited by Humble Pie; 04-14-2016 at 06:55 PM. Reason: Added note regarding fire blued extractor
    Regards,
    Bob

  5. #5
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    Bob, in my opinion This is similar to chakra.
    8766dd.jpg
    The site stated that this caliber of 5 mm.
    http://www.galeriedemars.fr/fr/1915-...-fin-xixe.html


    Of course grips Type 1 and 2 are very similar, and you can ignore the difference.
    GrA.jpgGrB.jpg
    Only for me the difference is obvious. On the grips of type 1 to each side of the logo are placed large leaves, and the type of 2 small leaves, not expressive.


    Bob tell me how to name this part correctly....

    part1.jpg



    I will gradually make changes in the table.


    Regards

    Vaclav

  6. #6
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    5048 - 5mm - horizontal Cs (type 1) - seems to be "in the white", judjing by the remainning fire blue on the extractor

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie_C96 View Post
    5048 - 5mm - horizontal Cs (type 1) - seems to be "in the white", judjing by the remainning fire blue on the extractor
    Andrei , thanks for the addition.

    Vaclav

    - - - Updated - - -

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie_C96 View Post
    5048 - 5mm - horizontal Cs (type 1) - seems to be "in the white", judjing by the remainning fire blue on the extractor
    Andrei , What do you call "the remainning fire"?

    Vaclav

  9. #9
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    Vaclav, that is an interesting distinction between the type 1 and type 2 grips. In dozens of Clement 1903s, I have never seen that grip style with the small leaves. Can you share any serial numbers of the actual pistol(s) having this style of grip?

    The part you whose name you are asking about would be called the "upper receiver" (at least in my opinion that is the most accurate name for it).

    Just a little more data on two examples you already have: Nos. 7692 and 8080 both carry the "Manufacture Francaise..." marking on the top of the upper receiver.

    Andrei, can you say if your gun's trigger is "in the white" or blued like the rest of the gun? This is a much more useful piece of information than the extractor, which appears to have been fire blued for the entire production span. Your pistol no. 5048 lies right in the transitional zone between the white and blue triggers and the info would help identify when this change took place.
    Regards,
    Bob

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Pie View Post
    Andrei, can you say if your gun's trigger is "in the white" or blued like the rest of the gun? This is a much more useful piece of information than the extractor, which appears to have been fire blued for the entire production span. Your pistol no. 5048 lies right in the transitional zone between the white and blue triggers and the info would help identify when this change took place.
    Hard to say for sure, as it was re-polished in the past. But IMO, it was not blued.

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